A Civilized And Focused Discussion On Life Teen

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1310312902' post='2265307']
Technically if you take 1-5 of your definition of cult, you could apply it to Catholicism. I know that's not the intent, just saying things aren't always black and white.
[/quote]
We do use that definition of cult frequently, especially when referring to saints who have a local cultus.

[BG45]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1310314361' post='2265313']
We do use that definition of cult frequently, especially when referring to saints who have a local cultus.
[/quote]

Yes, but there's a difference between the way cult is being used here by the poster. The Cult of Saint Anne for example, is a wee bit different than a brainwashing cult.

[add]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1310316754' post='2265321']
Yes, but there's a difference between the way cult is being used here by the poster. The Cult of Saint Anne for example, is a wee bit different than a brainwashing cult.
[/quote]
I made no inference of that kind?

the poster

[BG45]

[quote name='add' timestamp='1310317239' post='2265323']
I made no inference of that kind?

the poster
[/quote]

I apologize for placing a tone where it didn't belong then and for misreading that tone out of these comments where it did not exist:

[quote name='add' timestamp='1310083249' post='2264196']
LifeTeen as it is now, is the same as it started , no good
[/quote]


[quote name='add' timestamp='1310230516' post='2264977']
referring to some of my fellow church-going Catholic parishioners as flabby, flacid, apathetic, watered-down modernist evil infection and LifeTeen (as it is now, not as it started) is the best thing that is happening to the church in the next 30 years...

I'm sorry but this mentality really Scares me, that is why i feel this (lifeteen) cult is [b]no good.[/b]
again, LifeTeen as it is now, is the same as it started , [s]very good[/s] NO GOOD[s]

[/s] This misdirected condemnation of the faith of, directed towards their some parents and encouraged the lifeteen cult is disgraceful. It also goes against the 5[sup]th[/sup] (commandment)


thank you very much[s]
[/s]
[/quote]


[quote name='add' timestamp='1310247887' post='2265081']
referring to some of my fellow church-going Catholic parishioners as flabby, flacid, apathetic, watered-down modernist evil infection and LifeTeen (as it is now, not as it started) is the best thing that is happening to the church in the next 30 years... is something a lifeteen'er stated, in this tread!
Calling[s] Life Teen "no good[/s] your fellow church-going Catholic parishioners (the above) is slanderous and should be dealt with in confession with a priest who can offer you spiritual direction.
[/quote]


[quote name='add' timestamp='1310301432' post='2265275']
life teen a cult (see definition)
[b][size="5"]Cult[/size][/b] –noun

[size="3"]1. [/size]A particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
[size="3"]2.[/size] An instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. [size="3"]
3.[/size] The object of such devotion. [size="3"]
4.[/size] A group or sect bound together by veneration of the[u] [/u]same thing, person, ideal, etc.
[size="3"]5.[/size] Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

[size="3"]6.[/size] a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

[size="3"]7.[/size] The members of such a religion or sect.

[size="3"]8.[/size][size="3"] Any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have [i]sole[/i] insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific. [/size]

brother Adam
a cult is not necessarily a bad thing, and i do not see the need to apologize or go to confession for stating a simple fact.
the lifeteen program isolates itself from the church community with a special mass for teens, parents can attend, but have been or are politely ostracized from participating, in my opinion.
the founder and mentor of the lifeteen program has been tried and convicted of heinous crimes, and has been ( rightly so) excommunicated and defrocked.
With all its good intentions and virtues the lifeteen program is flawed, in my opinion, Sunday Mass worship participation is for and about family and community - [b]being all together [/b]- in remembrance of Jesus.
my apologies to whomever i may have offended,
JMJ
[/quote]

Other than "not necessarily a bad thing" I was reading it wrong. So again, I apologize for any offense.

Edited July 10, 2011 by BG45

[MissyP89]

Standard of dress: your mileage may vary. Cultures are different. People are different. Dress yourself modestly and respectfully, and encourage in charity those who you're responsible for to do the same. Otherwise, stop looking around at what everyone else is wearing and focus on the miracle happening in front of your face. Ditto liturgical music.

And as for Life Teen, I think it's been well-established here that as with any type of catechesis, its success depends a great deal on who's running it and what their understanding is (ex. "making Mass fit the teens" vs. "making the teens fit the Mass"). There are great ones and bad ones, and the same is true of parishes and priests. Doesn't mean the whole thing is a wash.

[add]

"Family that prays together stays together"

Our Father,
Who art in heaven,
hallowed be Thy name;
Thy kingdom come;
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

Give me strength to raise my children, to inspire religiousness and to teach them goodness

Amen

Edited July 10, 2011 by add

[iheartjp2]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1310319631' post='2265332']
Standard of dress: your mileage may vary. Cultures are different. People are different. Dress yourself modestly and respectfully, and encourage in charity those who you're responsible for to do the same. Otherwise, stop looking around at what everyone else is wearing and focus on the miracle happening in front of your face. Ditto liturgical music.

And as for Life Teen, I think it's been well-established here that as with any type of catechesis, its success depends a great deal on who's running it and what their understanding is (ex. "making Mass fit the teens" vs. "making the teens fit the Mass"). There are great ones and bad ones, and the same is true of parishes and priests. Doesn't mean the whole thing is a wash.
[/quote]

This.

[kujo]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1310319631' post='2265332']
Standard of dress: your mileage may vary. Cultures are different. People are different. Dress yourself modestly and respectfully, and encourage in charity those who you're responsible for to do the same. Otherwise, stop looking around at what everyone else is wearing and focus on the miracle happening in front of your face. Ditto liturgical music.

And as for Life Teen, I think it's been well-established here that as with any type of catechesis, its success depends a great deal on who's running it and what their understanding is (ex. "making Mass fit the teens" vs. "making the teens fit the Mass"). There are great ones and bad ones, and the same is true of parishes and priests. Doesn't mean the whole thing is a wash.
[/quote]

Perfection, thy name is Missy

[Sirklawd]

time for: Fun with Clarifications!

1. I said LifeTeen was the best thing that happened to the church in the [b][i]next[/i][/b] 30 years. Clearly, as im not a prophet, this is a half joke.
2. Lifeteen is doing more for teens than ccd or any confirmation i've seen has ton in 20 years.
3. Teens graduating "out of" the church at confirmation is a HUGE problem most diocese don't care about for a number of reasons.
4. LT actually get's teens to understand the "why" of the faith - why it's important and why it matters to them. Many teens actually fall in love with the faith through LT.
5. Do not confuse Lifeteen with the "LifeTeen Mass". The Mass is one part. Originally LT broke alot of rules about the Mass, and made alot of bad press. LT changed about 5 years. New leadership. And this leadership is WELL aware of the mistakes of the past and the badblood on their name. They are first and foremost about being faithful to the church. Learn about what they teach. Research. They are 100% faithful to the teachings of the church now.
6. At actual LifeNights (which occur after the LifeTeen Mass) they teach 100% of the faith. They hold nothing back, or sugar coat anything.
7. They just do it in a way specifically geared for teens. And it works.
8. Which is great since teens have been written off in alot of parishes.
9. People who say "Lifeteen is great" are right, because it works. Don't insult them and think they love the program more than Jesus. All of their teachings come bible, catechism, and church fathers. "LIFE TEEN" is about the approach, not the substance. The substance is Jesus. The substance is Catholicism. Again, do research. Find out for yourselves.
10. Is lifeteen charismatic or traditional? Wrong. It uses both. Neither are wrong. Spoiler: Some parishes may use one or the other more than you like.
11. Lifeteen is feeding a section of the laity that hasnt been well fed in the past. It's working. Teens are freely partaking in the sacraments, understanding them and loving it.
12. Is it the only teen program? no. Is it a good one? yes.
13. In 30 years our teens now will be in charge of the church. Praise God.
14. This is better than 30 years ago when those teens and what they were taught (modernism) are leaving church or teaching falsely in the church.


Also just to clarify. Here are some marks of my Lifeteen teen Mass: Teen-focused homilies (this rarely happens), teen ushers, teen Eucharistic Ministers, teens bringing up gifts, teen lectors, teens kneeling in the area between the first pew an the alter during the consecration, praise-and-worship music.

[Lil Red]

and to all that i say: your mileage may vary.

[add]

[quote name='Sirklawd' timestamp='1310670253' post='2267442']
time for: Fun with Clarifications!

Also just to clarify. Here are some marks of my Lifeteen teen Mass: Teen-focused homilies (this rarely happens), teen ushers, teen Eucharistic Ministers, teens bringing up gifts, teen lectors, teens kneeling in the area between the first pew an the alter during the consecration, praise-and-worship music.
[/quote]

Lifeteen teen Mass is:
[list=1][*]where only teens are welcome[*]where grandma need not apply[*]it's all about me[*]new and better, 'caus tradition is like, for the old and decrepit[*] self centered[/list]

[Sirklawd]

[quote name='add' timestamp='1310717575' post='2267678']
Lifeteen teen Mass is:
[list=1][*]where only teens are welcome[*]where grandma need not apply[*]it's all about me[*]new and better, 'caus tradition is like, for the old and decrepit[*] self centered[/list]
[/quote]

Personally im surprised that the parish administrators didn't notice the "no gamma's allowed" addition to the bulletin. This devious cult is everywhere! Their invisible arm reaches through the shadows and into the bulletin publishing software of all parishes! or perhaps you have double agents in the rectory!? I would be very careful.

Srsly though, is this an actual response? Do I need to actually type out how none of what you've said is encouraged by Lifeteen? if this is [i]actually[/i] whats going on in your parish, they are doing it wrong. You should say something about this, and honestly contact your pastor/bishop/LifeTeen.

How striking are those that condemn the organization based on what few parish-level representatives of that organization do wrong under the name of that organization. /familiar

[Sirklawd]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1310674841' post='2267461']
and to all that i say: your mileage may vary.
[/quote]

def true. mileage is pretty much contingent on the actual youth minister of the parish more than anything. They can be mailed all of the supplies, workbooks, videos, and resources in the world but can't be forced to use them. Much like the church itself versus the vision of individual pastors versus your opinion of what pastors should be doing.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Sirklawd

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Sirklawd' timestamp='1310728942' post='2267690']
def true. mileage is pretty much contingent on the actual youth minister of the parish more than anything. They can be mailed all of the supplies, workbooks, videos, and resources in the world but can't be forced to use them. Much like the church itself versus the vision of individual pastors versus your opinion of what pastors should be doing.
[/quote]
Is that a good thing? To have the communication of the faith so intimately tied to the personal charisma of a single layperson?

[add]

[quote name='Sirklawd' timestamp='1310728501' post='2267687']
Personally im surprised that the parish administrators didn't notice the "no gamma's allowed" addition to the bulletin. This devious cult is everywhere! Their invisible arm reaches through the shadows and into the bulletin publishing software of all parishes! or perhaps you have double agents in the rectory!? I would be very careful.

Srsly though, is this an actual response? Do I need to actually type out how none of what you've said is encouraged by Lifeteen? if this is [i]actually[/i] whats going on in your parish, they are doing it wrong. You should say something about this, and honestly contact your pastor/bishop/LifeTeen.

How striking are those that condemn the organization based on what few parish-level representatives of that organization do wrong under the name of that organization. /familiar
[/quote]


[b]Life Teen's program can be good, however, they often perform all kinds of liturgical abuses during the in mass favor of creating a "lively spirit" for the kids. This amounts to a Protestantization of the Holy mass. Life teen's founder has recently been excommunicated by the church. He was excommunicated for founding a interfaith prayer group.... in other words for founding a schismatic group, and in a sense becoming too protestant.
(Not to mention Msgr. Dale Fushek's criminal record with children... He has had seven misdemeanor counts including contributing to the delinquency of a minor, indecent exposure and assault.)

This is what happens when people pray like protestants... they become protestants. We need to make sure we are praying like Catholics, not protestants, or we and our kids will loose the catholic faith and get a Protestantized version of it.
[/b]