Era Might Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1307811882' post='2252374'] I think the situation needs a really good mediator. Since I hate to fly, and the parties would not all want to come to Canada, maybe Jimmy Carter is available. [/quote] Get President Obama there too and they can have a beer summit. Jimmy Carter can supply the peanuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 [quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1307814250' post='2252383'] Get President Obama there too and they can have a beer summit. Jimmy Carter can supply the peanuts. [/quote] Until talks break down because the selected beer isn't suitable to all parties? The worst part is, after reading George Tenet's memoirs of when he had to attend peace summit meetings, I'm only half joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Little Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1307773550' post='2252300'] COME, Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of Thy faithful and kindle in them the fire of Thy love. V. Send forth Thy Spirit and they shall be created R. And Thou shalt renew the face of the earth. Let us pray: O GOD, Who taught the hearts of the faithful by the light of the Holy Spirit, grant that, by the gift of the same Spirit, we may be always truly wise, and ever rejoice in His consolation. Through Christ our Lord. Amen. [/quote] I love this prayer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Little Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 [quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1307814250' post='2252383'] Get President Obama there too and they can have a beer summit. Jimmy Carter can supply the peanuts. [/quote] Leave Obama out of it! He does no good for anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinzo Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1307800400' post='2252334'] what was the reason the sspx was not in communion with rome in the first place? why did they break from the catholic church? [/quote] Actually the SSPX was canonically suppressed in May of 1975. A commission of cardinals appointed by Paul VI confirmed this. Lefebvre appealed the decision to the Apostolic Signatura which rejected his appeal. In 1976 Lefebvre continued to ordain seminarians and he was then suspended a divinis, meaning he could not ordain anyone. Thus, the SSPX has not had a canonical mission since that time. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 When the SSPX submits to the Church, then they can be considered Traditionalists. Until they are fully subordinate to the Holy Father, they are not a force for Traditionalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 From the horse's mouth: "[b]We adhere with our whole heart and with our whole soul to Catholic Rome[/b], the guardian of the Catholic faith and of those traditions necessary for the maintenance of that faith, to eternal Rome, mistress of wisdom and truth." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1307836357' post='2252519'] From the horse's mouth: "[b]We adhere with our whole heart and with our whole soul to Catholic Rome[/b], the guardian of the Catholic faith and of those traditions necessary for the maintenance of that faith, to eternal Rome, mistress of wisdom and truth." [/quote] Are they talking about our Pope, or their ideals of what Rome is/should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1307836357' post='2252519'] From the horse's mouth: "[b]We adhere with our whole heart and with our whole soul to Catholic Rome[/b], the guardian of the Catholic faith and of those traditions necessary for the maintenance of that faith, to eternal Rome, mistress of wisdom and truth." [/quote] If this were true, then why would there be any need to normalize anything? They are not in full communion and therefore cannot be considered Traditionalists. Obedience is the cornerstone of being a Traditionalist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1307837554' post='2252525'] Are they talking about our Pope, or their ideals of what Rome is/should be. [/quote] They mean our current Pope, I believe. As far as I'm concerned, as an organization they act in good faith, even if some within do not. "It is for this reason that, without any rebellion, bitterness or resentment, we pursue our work of the formation of priests under the star of the age-old Magisterium, [b]in the conviction that we can thus do no greater service to the holy Catholic Church, to the Sovereign Pontiff, and to future generations[/b]."[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1307837693' post='2252527'] If this were true, then why would there be any need to normalize anything? They are not in full communion and therefore cannot be considered Traditionalists. Obedience is the cornerstone of being a Traditionalist [/quote] Their canonical situation is irregular because of their act of disobedience. They are not in schism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 [quote]“An indispensable condition for any future recognition of the Society of St. Pius X is their full recognition of Vatican Council II and of the Magisterium of Popes John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I, John Paul II, and Benedict XVI. “As already affirmed in the Decree of 21 January 2009, the Holy See will not fail, in ways considered most appropriate, to join the parties concerned in a profound examination of outstanding issues, so as to be able to reach a full and satisfactory solution to the problems that gave rise to this painful split”.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1307837847' post='2252529'] They mean our current Pope, I believe. As far as I'm concerned, as an organization they act in good faith, even if some within do not. "It is for this reason that, without any rebellion, bitterness or resentment, we pursue our work of the formation of priests under the star of the age-old Magisterium, [b]in the conviction that we can thus do no greater service to the holy Catholic Church, to the Sovereign Pontiff, and to future generations[/b]." Their canonical situation is irregular because of their act of disobedience. They are not in schism. [/quote] Thank you!! We are on the same page! Disobedience does not make one a Traditionalist. Obedience does! I have no doubt that any learned friends you have would have to agree with that statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1307837847' post='2252529'] They mean our current Pope, I believe. As far as I'm concerned, as an organization they act in good faith, even if some within do not. "It is for this reason that, without any rebellion, bitterness or resentment, we pursue our work of the formation of priests [b]under the star of the age-old Magisterium, in the conviction that we can thus do no greater service to the holy Catholic Church, to the Sovereign Pontiff, and to future generations[/b]." Their canonical situation is irregular because of their act of disobedience. They are not in schism. [/quote] Why should they have bitterness or resentment towards the Church? They were in the wrong, not the Church. The part I highlighted is what concerns me. It still sounds like they believe they represent the "old Magisterium" as if the Church doesn't. It stills seems like it is coming from a position that the SSPX is right, and eventually the Pope will figure it out. I only see pride, not humility, coming from their side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1307838041' post='2252533'] Thank you!! We are on the same page! Disobedience does not make one a Traditionalist. Obedience does! I have no doubt that any learned friends you have would have to agree with that statement [/quote] I've never said that the Econe Consecrations were the right choice. [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1307838266' post='2252539'] Why should they have bitterness or resentment towards the Church? They were in the wrong, not the Church. The part I highlighted is what concerns me. It still sounds like they believe they represent the "old Magisterium" as if the Church doesn't. It stills seems like it is coming from a position that the SSPX is right, and eventually the Pope will figure it out. I only see pride, not humility, coming from their side. [/quote] I think you're trying to judge their hearts, and I don't think that's appropriate. Everything you said is personal conjecture and unsubstantiated. ETA: You know as well as I do that there is only one Magisterium. If they pledge themselves to the Magisterium, they know just as well that there is only one and only can be one. Edited June 12, 2011 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1307838391' post='2252541'] I've never said that the Econe Consecrations were the right choice. I think you're trying to judge their hearts, and I don't think that's appropriate. Everything you said is personal conjecture and unsubstantiated. [/quote] No but you state that the could be a force for Traditionalism. I was clarifying that until they are obedient to Rome and accept Vatican II they will never be considered Traditionalists nor will the people who support their masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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