Nihil Obstat Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1308118688' post='2253942'] What does this mean, exactly? Seems to me that it could imply such severe consequences as causing illicit confection of the Eucharist or excommunication latae sententiae of those who are attempting to exercise the ministries that they do not legitimately hold. Am I way off on this? [/quote] Their Masses are illicit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Unless the Church overturns Vatican II, the SSPX will not return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 [quote name='mortify' timestamp='1308147844' post='2253983'] Unless the Church overturns Vatican II, the SSPX will not return [/quote] I hope that is not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 [quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1308149161' post='2253994'] I hope that is not the case. [/quote] From the SSPX view Vatican II explicitly taught heresy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 "[b]Full communion will come.[/b] In our discussions, [b]Bishop Fellay recognized the Second Vatican Council, he recognized it theologically.[/b] Only a few difficulties remain..." --Cardinal Castrilló Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1308150328' post='2254003'] "[b]Full communion will come.[/b] In our discussions, [b]Bishop Fellay recognized the Second Vatican Council, he recognized it theologically.[/b] Only a few difficulties remain..." --Cardinal Castrilló [/quote] Ooh, thanks for finding that for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308117435' post='2253941'] All of which I have continued to affirm. [/quote] sorry, wasn't trying to imply you weren't i'm just throwing that out there, because I just found that quote. The part that was interesting to me was the lines where it was saying the problems were doctrinal rather than discipline related, this would seem to imply a greater problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1308150328' post='2254003'] "[b]Full communion will come.[/b] In our discussions, [b]Bishop Fellay recognized the Second Vatican Council, he recognized it theologically.[/b] Only a few difficulties remain..." --Cardinal Castrilló [/quote] Pope>Cardinal "The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church" (Ps., just for context, your quote is from an interview given to an Italian newspaper on 29 Jan 2009. The Pope quote is from a letter to the "Bishops of the Catholic Church", dated 10 Mar 2009.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1308156054' post='2254047'] Pope>Cardinal "The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church" (Ps., just for context, your quote is from an interview given to an Italian newspaper on 29 Jan 2009. The Pope quote is from a letter to the "Bishops of the Catholic Church", dated 10 Mar 2009.) [/quote] I don't see how they can be interpreted as mutually exclusive. Cardinal Hoyos said only a few difficulties remain, and the pope said that these few difficulties are doctrinal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308156443' post='2254050'] I don't see how they can be interpreted as mutually exclusive. Cardinal Hoyos said only a few difficulties remain, and the pope said that these few difficulties are doctrinal. [/quote] Because of this: "Bishop Fellay recognized the Second Vatican Council, he recognized it [i]theologically[/i]". Does theology no longer include doctrine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1308156527' post='2254051'] Because of this: "Bishop Fellay recognized the Second Vatican Council, he recognized it [i]theologically[/i]". Does theology no longer include doctrine? [/quote] I interpret that as meaning that he has agreed with the Vatican delegates that VII was a valid council and that his problem is not with the council itself. Saying that he recognized it theologically doesn't imply that he has dropped all criticism of it. Just like, while everyone in the SSPX agrees that John Paul II was a valid pope, that doesn't mean that they can't disagree with some of the things that he did as pope. Like the Assisi meeting, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308156889' post='2254054'] I interpret that as meaning that he has agreed with the Vatican delegates that VII was a valid council and that his problem is not with the council itself. [/quote] So if his problem isn't with the council, what is it with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1308157186' post='2254056'] So if his problem isn't with the council, what is it with? [/quote] Not with the Council as a whole, but with some specific parts of it. Just like I can disagree with John Paul II kissing the Koran, but not dispute that he was a valid pope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308158335' post='2254062'] Not with the Council as a whole, but with some specific parts of it. Just like I can disagree with John Paul II kissing the Koran, but not dispute that he was a valid pope. [/quote] Except the Pope said the differences are doctrinal. That's kind of a big deal. Like saying, "Oh yeah, I'm Catholic and all, but that whole Transubstantiation thing is silly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1308158427' post='2254063'] Except the Pope said the differences are doctrinal. That's kind of a big deal. Like saying, "Oh yeah, I'm Catholic and all, but that whole Transubstantiation thing is silly." [/quote] this (excusing the hyperbole) was my thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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