Upper/lower She'ol And Purgatory

[infinitelord1]

Which are the following referring to?

1) [II Maccabees 12:44-45] if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.

2) [1 Peter 3]- 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.

3) [Matthew 18: 32-35]- 32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

[Ed Normile]

I don't know, they both sound like good neighborhoods too me.

ed

[infinitelord1]

Reason I ask is because I went to a class on Purgatory that was given by my Priest. He explained it quite well...I just wish I could remember.

I think he explained that before Jesus Christ came...nobody went to Heaven or Hell. They went to holding places known as Upper and Lower She'ol. These holding places are talked about periodically throughout the Old Testament. The reference in Maccabees that most of us are aware of could actually be referring to Upper She'ol. I used to think that it was referring to Purgatory. It could be referring to Purgatory, but it would require that Purgatory coexisted with Upper She'ol and Lower She'ol.

None of this is meant to cause doubt in Purgatory. References to Purgatory are found in the New Testament (as most of us are probably aware).

[Ash Wednesday]

Nobody went to hell before Jesus? But what about "Gehenna"? Jesus spoke of it and it sounded a lot more unpleasant than just a holding place for the dead.

Not debating...just an honest question.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' timestamp='1307748735' post='2252219']
Nobody went to hell before Jesus? But what about "Gehenna"? Jesus spoke of it and it sounded a lot more unpleasant than just a holding place for the dead.

Not debating...just an honest question.
[/quote]

people did goto hell, but nobody went to heaven. The souls that lead a decent live were stained by unforgiven original sin, these otherwise good souls went to sheol waiting for the time for God to offer his mercy.

ed

[cmotherofpirl]

All the good people had to hang out in the bosum of Abraham , the abode of the Righteous Dead, those awaiting the coming of the Messiah, so they could enter heaven. This occurred after Jesus died and before He arose from the dead.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01055a.htm

Here is the ancient homily for Holy Saturday, my favorite reading of the entire year:


The Lord's descent into hell

"What is happening? Today there is a great silence over the earth, a great silence, and stillness, a great silence because the King sleeps; the earth was in terror and was still, because God slept in the flesh and raised up those who were sleeping from the ages. God has died in the flesh, and the underworld has trembled.

Truly he goes to seek out our first parent like a lost sheep; he wishes to visit those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death. He goes to free the prisoner Adam and his fellow-prisoner Eve from their pains, he who is God, and Adam's son.

The Lord goes in to them holding his victorious weapon, his cross. When Adam, the first created man, sees him, he strikes his breast in terror and calls out to all: 'My Lord be with you all.' And Christ in reply says to Adam: ‘And with your spirit.’ And grasping his hand he raises him up, saying: ‘Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light.

‘I am your God, who for your sake became your son, who for you and your descendants now speak and command with authority those in prison: Come forth, and those in darkness: Have light, and those who sleep: Rise.

‘I command you: Awake, sleeper, I have not made you to be held a prisoner in the underworld. Arise from the dead; I am the life of the dead. Arise, O man, work of my hands, arise, you who were fashioned in my image. Rise, let us go hence; for you in me and I in you, together we are one undivided person.

‘For you, I your God became your son; for you, I the Master took on your form; that of slave; for you, I who am above the heavens came on earth and under the earth; for you, man, I became as a man without help, free among the dead; for you, who left a garden, I was handed over to Jews from a garden and crucified in a garden.

‘Look at the spittle on my face, which I received because of you, in order to restore you to that first divine inbreathing at creation. See the blows on my cheeks, which I accepted in order to refashion your distorted form to my own image.

'See the scourging of my back, which I accepted in order to disperse the load of your sins which was laid upon your back. See my hands nailed to the tree for a good purpose, for you, who stretched out your hand to the tree for an evil one.

`I slept on the cross and a sword pierced my side, for you, who slept in paradise and brought forth Eve from your side. My side healed the pain of your side; my sleep will release you from your sleep in Hades; my sword has checked the sword which was turned against you.

‘But arise, let us go hence. The enemy brought you out of the land of paradise; I will reinstate you, no longer in paradise, but on the throne of heaven. I denied you the tree of life, which was a figure, but now I myself am united to you, I who am life. I posted the cherubim to guard you as they would slaves; now I make the cherubim worship you as they would God.

"The cherubim throne has been prepared, the bearers are ready and waiting, the bridal chamber is in order, the food is provided, the everlasting houses and rooms are in readiness; the treasures of good things have been opened; the kingdom of heaven has been prepared before the ages."