Guest Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1311333037' post='2273688'] (side note tangent) I was watching Pawn Stars and this guy brought in a prohibition era Prescription Whiskey Bottle (in the box). Appearantly, you could go to your Dr. and get a prescription for whiskey. Just seemed interesting... [/quote] Whiskey for my men beer for my horses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='rizz_loves_jesus' timestamp='1311288479' post='2273250'] By smoking marijuana, you wouldn't be infringing on anyone else's rights. [/quote] There's gots to better reasoning for legalizing pot than this. If pot does go legal, I am dumping all my money in companies than install basements in parent's houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1311335173' post='2273698'] There's gots to better reasoning for legalizing pot than this. If pot does go legal, I am dumping all my money in companies than install basements in parent's houses. [/quote] You're right, there is a TON of better reasons than simply this; however, they all revolve around the notion that smoking it is not substantially different than smoking cigarettes, taking prescription drugs or drinking alcohol. These are all behavior-modifying substances that the federal government does not ban. So what's the difference here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311341079' post='2273743'] You're right, there is a TON of better reasons than simply this; however, they all revolve around the notion that smoking it is not substantially different than smoking cigarettes, taking prescription drugs or drinking alcohol. These are all behavior-modifying substances that the federal government does not ban. So what's the difference here? [/quote] I know there is a difference based on my experience with pot smokers. I just can't express it in words effectively. At first glance, if pot is legal it may seem there's no harm to society, but there's no way to tell the long term impact it will have of society. Yes, someone smoking a joint in his home does not in of itself harm me. But, I believe we need to look beyond the "me doing such-in-such doesn't harm you" mentality and look at the big picture. I am not convinced that society will not be harmed if pot is legal carte blanche. Also, I can't relate to the hardcore, militant pro-pot activist. I don't understand the deep need to smoke pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1311342074' post='2273749'] I know there is a difference based on my experience with pot smokers. I just can't express it in words effectively. At first glance, if pot is legal it may seem there's no harm to society, but there's no way to tell the long term impact it will have of society. Yes, someone smoking a joint in his home does not in of itself harm me. But, I believe we need to look beyond the "me doing such-in-such doesn't harm you" mentality and look at the big picture. I am not convinced that society will not be harmed if pot is legal carte blanche. Also, I can't relate to the hardcore, militant pro-pot activist. I don't understand the deep need to smoke pot. [/quote] I'm not militant and I've never smoked pot. Not because of its legal status--because I'm just not interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1311335173' post='2273698'] There's gots to better reasoning for legalizing pot than this. [/quote] The U.S. federal government spent over $15 billion dollars in 2010 on the War on Drugs, at a rate of about $500 per second. State and local governments spent at least another 25 billion dollars. Police arrested an estimated 858,408 persons for cannabis violations in 2009. Of those charged with cannabis violations, approximately 89 percent were charged with possession only. An American is arrested for violating cannabis laws every 30 seconds. Since December 31, 1995, the U.S. prison population has grown an average of 43,266 inmates per year. About 25 per cent are sentenced for drug law violations. [url="http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock"]SOURCE[/url] I see cannibis as less detrimental to the body (and by extension, society) than alcohol or tobacco. The latter are legal, so should the former. The financial albatross of The War on Drugs (as it relates to cannibis) and the following strains on the DOC end up being overburdensome on taxpayers. The [s]possible[/s] probable increase in revenue from regulation of the growth, packaging, and sale of cannibis might be a good thing. I further believe, like alcohol, once it is made legal, the criminal element is lessened dramatically. This, I feel, is a good thing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311342567' post='2273756'] I'm not militant and I've never smoked pot. Not because of its legal status--because I'm just not interested. [/quote] Did not intend to imply you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1311343581' post='2273760'] The U.S. federal government spent over $15 billion dollars in 2010 on the War on Drugs, at a rate of about $500 per second. State and local governments spent at least another 25 billion dollars. Police arrested an estimated 858,408 persons for cannabis violations in 2009. Of those charged with cannabis violations, approximately 89 percent were charged with possession only. An American is arrested for violating cannabis laws every 30 seconds. Since December 31, 1995, the U.S. prison population has grown an average of 43,266 inmates per year. About 25 per cent are sentenced for drug law violations. [url="http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock"]SOURCE[/url] I see cannibis as less detrimental to the body (and by extension, society) than alcohol or tobacco. The latter are legal, so should the former. The financial albatross of The War on Drugs (as it relates to cannibis) and the following strains on the DOC end up being overburdensome on taxpayers. The [s]possible[/s] probable increase in revenue from regulation of the growth, packaging, and sale of cannibis might be a good thing. I further believe, like alcohol, once it is made legal, the criminal element is lessened dramatically. This, I feel, is a good thing too. [/quote] [font="Tahoma"][size="2"]I never understood making something legal in order to not spend money on enforcing it. That could encompass a lot of laws.[/size][/font] [font="Tahoma"][size="2"]Is identifying X being subjectively more harmful to health than Y a valid reason to legalize Y? I would think that logic would lead to outlawing X, not legalizing Y.[/size][/font] [font="Tahoma"][size="2"]But then again, I don't and never did smoke pot. My mind maybe a little tainted on this issue due to my friends in high school who smoked pot. They were always lying around very subdued and when not, they were talking about when they were going to get and smoke next.[/size][/font] Edited July 22, 2011 by Papist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1311347029' post='2273806'] [font="Tahoma"][size="2"]I never understood making something legal in order to not spend money on enforcing it. That could encompass a lot of laws.[/size][/font] [font="Tahoma"][size="2"]Is identifying X being subjectively more harmful to health than Y a valid reason to legalize Y? I would think that logic would lead to outlawing X, not legalizing Y.[/size][/font] [font="Tahoma"][size="2"]But then again, I don't and never did smoke pot. My mind maybe a little tainted on this issue due to my friends in high school who smoked pot. They were always lying around very subdued and when not, they were talking about when they were going to get and smoke next.[/size][/font] [/quote] 1) My argument hinges more on the amount of money spend/wasted coupled with the massive disasterousnessousitude of the War on Drugs in general. I would admit it is not the sole reason, but I must admit it is a powerful ancillary reason. (So I see the logic of what you are saying) But... If it took $30,000,000 to fight a war on public flatulence, with no results, I might be inclined to look at the purposefullness/usefullness of that law too. Unless money is no object. 2) Logically then, you support prohibition and the outlaw of all tobacco products. I don't. We disagree there. 3) We all have life experiences that color our opinions. That's fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1311347913' post='2273816'] 1) My argument hinges more on the amount of money spend/wasted coupled with the massive disasterousnessousitude of the War on Drugs in general. I would admit it is not the sole reason, but I must admit it is a powerful ancillary reason. (So I see the logic of what you are saying) But... If it took $30,000,000 to fight a war on public flatulence, with no results, I might be inclined to look at the purposefullness/usefullness of that law too. Unless money is no object. 2) Logically then, you support prohibition and the outlaw of all tobacco products. I don't. We disagree there. 3) We all have life experiences that color our opinions. That's fair enough. [/quote] 1) I admit the amount of dollars spent is alarming. 2) Yes. I would support if there is good reason, which there is. However, I'd probably kill myself if beer was outlawed...OH CRUD!!! That's illegal too. Edited July 22, 2011 by Papist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 you could get a prescription for it!!! Then it would be deja vu all over again! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizz_loves_jesus Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1311335173' post='2273698'] There's gots to better reasoning for legalizing pot than this. [/quote] Why? You didn't even give any reasons for why that's a bad argument But if you insist... 1. Pot is less addictive than caffeine, alcohol, and nicotine--all of which are currently legal. http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/addiction/addiction_journal1.shtml 2. The war on drugs often targets minorities instead of drug users in general. http://blogs.forbes.com/erikkain/2011/06/28/the-war-on-drugs-is-a-war-on-minorities-and-the-poor/ 3. Prohibition on marijuana increases gang violence, similar to what alcohol prohibition did during the 1920's. http://www.mpp.org/library/its-not-the-marijuana-but.html 4. There are many medical benefits to limited marijuana use. http://guyism.com/lifestyle/10-major-health-benefits-of-medical-marijuana.html 5. 2/3 of all domestic abuses cases involve alcohol. Almost half of all assaults also involve alcohol. The only violence linked to marijuana is gang violence, which I addressed in number 3. And yet alcohol is still legal, while pot is not. http://www.marininstitute.org/alcohol_policy/violence.htm Edited July 22, 2011 by rizz_loves_jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='rizz_loves_jesus' timestamp='1311361174' post='2273926'] Why? You didn't even give any reasons for why that's a bad argument But if you insist... 1. Pot is less addictive than caffeine, alcohol, and nicotine--all of which are currently legal. [url="http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/addiction/addiction_journal1.shtml"]http://www.erowid.or..._journal1.shtml[/url] 2. The war on drugs often targets minorities instead of drug users in general. [url="http://blogs.forbes.com/erikkain/2011/06/28/the-war-on-drugs-is-a-war-on-minorities-and-the-poor/"]http://blogs.forbes....s-and-the-poor/[/url] 3. Prohibition on marijuana increases gang violence, similar to what alcohol prohibition did during the 1920's. [url="http://www.mpp.org/library/its-not-the-marijuana-but.html"]http://www.mpp.org/l...ijuana-but.html[/url] 4. There are many medical benefits to limited marijuana use. [url="http://guyism.com/lifestyle/10-major-health-benefits-of-medical-marijuana.html"]http://guyism.com/li...-marijuana.html[/url] 5. 2/3 of all domestic abuses cases involve alcohol. Almost half of all assaults also involve alcohol. The only violence linked to marijuana is gang violence, which I addressed in number 3. And yet alcohol is still legal, while pot is not. [url="http://www.marininstitute.org/alcohol_policy/violence.htm"]http://www.marininst...cy/violence.htm[/url] [/quote] Good point for outlawing alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizz_loves_jesus Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 well, would you want to outlaw alcohol? seriously, all your arguments lead that way, yet you seem to resist the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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