Nihil Obstat Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307741946' post='2252179'] Peace, brother. I'm quite well aware of the Church's teach on sexuality, and I absolutely agree with it; however, it's one of those round-hole square-peg sorta things. [/quote] I seem to recall that you reject a few aspects of Church teaching on sexuality, specifically the Catholic condemnation of homosexual actions. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=111440&view=findpost&p=2218158"]I said: "To live in a homosexual partnership is wrong. To believe it is right is to reject Sacred Tradition, which is infallible. Do you disagree?" To which you said: "I do." [/url] [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=111440&view=findpost&p=2218162"]You said: "I believe it is wrong to expect me to have any opinion, much less a negative one, on the sexual activities preferred by two consenting adults."[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1307744051' post='2252190'] I seem to recall that you reject a few aspects of Church teaching on sexuality, specifically the Catholic condemnation of homosexual actions. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=111440&view=findpost&p=2218158"]I said: "To live in a homosexual partnership is wrong. To believe it is right is to reject Sacred Tradition, which is infallible. Do you disagree?" To which you said: "I do." [/url] [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=111440&view=findpost&p=2218162"]You said: "I believe it is wrong to expect me to have any opinion, much less a negative one, on the sexual activities preferred by two consenting adults."[/url] [/quote] You are correct, sir. What is your point? (Might it be that you're still smarting from my disrespectful comment from the LIFE TEEN thread?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1307743403' post='2252187'] The "goal" is to save souls, and that is what really matters. [/quote] I liken it to grades you receive in school. Sure everyone wants an A+. But B's get degrees, too! I want to save souls as well, but I also want to decrease the amount of abortions that occur. I don't look at myself as the "last resort" on a person's road to salvation. If I can contribute to them making a less-bad decision as opposed to a really bad decision, I think that's a victory, albeit a small one. Me, personally, I agree that contraception is a perversion of the unitive & procreative nature of sexuality. It makes a selfless act selfish. Just thought I'd state that for the record. Edited June 10, 2011 by kujo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307745393' post='2252201'] You are correct, sir. What is your point? (Might it be that you're still smarting from my disrespectful comment from the LIFE TEEN thread?) [/quote] More like I'm pretty uncomfortable with you claiming to agree with Church teaching on sexual morality when you clearly do not. Seems pretty dishonest to me. Edited June 10, 2011 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1307746770' post='2252206'] More like I'm pretty uncomfortable with you claiming to agree with Church teaching on sexual morality when you clearly do not. Seems pretty dishonest to me. [/quote] Well I wouldnt want to make you [I]uncomfortable[/I] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307747920' post='2252214'] Well I wouldnt want to make you [I]uncomfortable[/I] [/quote] Kewl. Don't bother addressing my post or anything. I think your posts speak for themselves, i.e. that you dissent from a very significant aspect of Catholic morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307745791' post='2252204'] I liken it to grades you receive in school. Sure everyone wants an A+. But B's get degrees, too! I want to save souls as well, but I also want to decrease the amount of abortions that occur. I don't look at myself as the "last resort" on a person's road to salvation. If I can contribute to them making a less-bad decision as opposed to a really bad decision, I think that's a victory, albeit a small one. Me, personally, I agree that contraception is a perversion of the unitive & procreative nature of sexuality. It makes a selfless act selfish. Just thought I'd state that for the record. [/quote] But mortal sins don't get Heaven, even if they are "less bad" than other mortal sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 [quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1307751837' post='2252231'] But mortal sins don't get Heaven, even if they are "less bad" than other mortal sins. [/quote] No room for lesser evils? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 [quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1307761298' post='2252258'] No room for lesser evils? [/quote] There are sins that will not send you to hell (venial sins), because they are less serious. But from a Catholic viewpoint, using birth control is a mortal sin and so is an abortion. So, even though, one might be viewed as "less evil" it's still a mortal sin, and still will merit hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307721745' post='2252020'] So, your contention is that homosexuals are "deeply hurt...disturbed or perverted," correct? That's what you want to go on-record as believing? To me, it always come down to this: kids should not be having sex. Period. It's not wise, it's not right and it's dangerous (to their souls, their bodies and their minds); however, I would much rather them have "safe sex" (i.e.- using [i]some[/i] form of contraception) than "un-safe sex" (i.e.- unprotected sex). It would be best if they just didn't have sex at all, obviously. But a realistic person has to concede that you can talk about chastity and purity all day long, and there's no way that you're going to reach all of those kids. Let's say you reach 2 of them--that's a [b]huge[/b] victory; however, what happens to the other 8? Are we just supposed to send them away without knowledge of how to at least protect themselves in the event that they're going to ignore what we know to be right? It's a messy situation, a catch-22. [/quote] Yes it is. And giving someone a pill that aborts their unborn children or a condom with a 15% failure rate is NOT a solution either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307741946' post='2252179'] Peace, brother. I'm quite well aware of the Church's teach on sexuality, and I absolutely agree with it; however, it's one of those round-hole square-peg sorta things. Is the goal to be "right" or is the goal to prevent the spread of disease and limit unplanned pregnancies (and, therefore, abortions)? It seems like a lot of people view this as a zero-sum game, whereas I don't. I want to stop abortions, and intuitively, fewer pregnancies = fewer abortions. [/quote] condoms do not reduce abortions or reduce HIV. use of condoms increase both of these. if you really want to reduce abortions and HIV then you want to push for abstinance. that is the only thing that will reduce abortions and HIV. if you really think condoms will reduce abortions and HIV then you drinking the kool aid of pllanned parenthood. promoting condoms promotes sex. increase in sex increases hiv and abortion rates. the only thing that will reduce abortions and hiv is abstinance. something the church teaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307745791' post='2252204'] I liken it to grades you receive in school. Sure everyone wants an A+. But B's get degrees, too! I want to save souls as well, but I also want to decrease the amount of abortions that occur. I don't look at myself as the "last resort" on a person's road to salvation. If I can contribute to them making a less-bad decision as opposed to a really bad decision, I think that's a victory, albeit a small one. Me, personally, I agree that contraception is a perversion of the unitive & procreative nature of sexuality. It makes a selfless act selfish. Just thought I'd state that for the record. [/quote] but your thinking is leading you away from the church and onto the path that leads away from the narrow gate. the church states that condom use is a grave sin. promoting condoms would also be a grave sin. you are in support and promotion of something that is a grave sin. for your own soul, i think you should follow the church on this teaching and then read the church documents so you can clarify why you are wrong and the church is right. for your own sake man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1307762824' post='2252267'] a condom with a 15% failure rate is NOT a solution either. [/quote] I made love to my wife/girlfriend for about 10 years before we decided to start having babies. Stopped using condom and voila, a baby. Hard to trust this 15% failure rate, what's your source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3105699.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1307648715' post='2251720'] Sex education is telling kids how to use "safe sexual practices," which just encourages them to do so, thereby ignoring that simple truth in all of our hearts that sex is a very sacred thing, and really should not be practiced casually.[/quote] Interestingly, regardles of the position the Catholic church has and has taught for hundreds of years, the vast majority of Catholics are still having sex outside of marriage. e.g [url="http://www.teachingaboutreligion.org/Demographics/map_demographics.htm"]U.S. Demographics[/url], 25% of Americans are Catholic [url="http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/news/20061220/premarital-sex-the-norm-in-america"]Premarital sex the norm in America[/url] by the age of 44, 95% of Americans have had sex outside of marriage. If the 5% that weren't having sex outside marriage were all Catholic, then that still leaves 20% of Americans (who are also Catholic) having sex outside of marriage. 20% from 25% = 80% of Catholics having sex outside of marriage. And that's giving a very generous assumption that the 5% not having sex outside marriage are all Catholic. I feel continuing with the position of abstinance as opposed to sex education is denying the reality of human behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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