AudreyGrace Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1307117718' post='2249488'] I regard LifeTeen in a similar way to the so-called Charismatic Renewal. [/quote] bah humbug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenciledOne Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307129395' post='2249559'] Well, your taste in the music is a matter of opinion and the whole "around the altar" thing has been discouraged by the program since 2002 (when JP2 basically said "stop it!"); however, your characterization of the teens as Eucharistic Ministers is unfair. I became an EM when I was 17 along with 3 people from the youth group who were seen to be among the most spiritually mature for such an enormous task. We then went through a several week long class, and had a retreat weekend with the deacon in our parish, all before we were honored with this task. I would say that this is the norm, DS. Because, if I'm not mistaken, that's kinda the Diocesan rule on the matter. [/quote] Yes. [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1307130419' post='2249564'] well, the Church lays out the rules for music. I've played the organ for the Church for decades, and I've never read any document that supports playing protestant praise and worship music at Mass...to do so is really an abuse, especially when some of the lyrics contain words that are not in sync with Catholic theology...so it is more than a matter of my opinion. AS far as EMs go, there is abuse all around, I don't even think the majority of Masses need the adult EM's, as that role is really for extraordinary means. I'm glad you were well trained and honored to perform that ministry, but if you saw what I've seen: teenaged girls wearing very low cut blouses, wearing the shortest shorts and handing out Jesus, it makes you wonder if they truly understand what it is they are doing. Also, when you see the kids chewing gum as they hand out Communion, it also makes you wonder.... I do not attend those Masses any more. I found them too distracting for my tastes. I do not mean to generalize LifeTeen, but this is the ONLY experience I've had with it. I'm not trying to bash the program in those locations where it actually provides the means for teens to get closer to Christ... [/quote] Protestant songs can be sung at least as far as I know, as long as they aren't in conflict. It's done at my Church as at FUS as well, since they all glorify God anyway right? Of course the ones that may conflict with Catholicism are not included. As far as judging the kids, it's all based on spiritual maturity and if you expect youth nowadays to be at least 'babies' in the faith then lower your standards. Many adults I have come across in my own parish have no idea of what Mass is, since once the priest leaves the sanctuary, they cannot wait to leave Church. Plus with Lifeteen as with any parish, it all goes into the people that are in the Church that build the foundation. Leave everything else to God and He will enter into it. It's His Will that should work, not our expectations of how it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1307130419' post='2249564'] ...provides the means for teens to get closer to Christ... [/quote] Provides the [i]means[/i] for [i]teens[/i]... Nice rhyme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I think we can all agree that we need more of THIS in the mass: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oASYa-Wkroc[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudreyGrace Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I think it can be agreed upon that those who have a bad taste for Life Teen accredit their feelings towards the youth ministers, core members, and other adult helpers who do not properly catechize the youth, keep a reverent atmosphere during Mass, and allow for things to go on that are not in conformity with the Church. However. Life Teen as a program in and of itself is very doctrine oriented and is in complete agreement with all the Church teachings. So, I think it is unfair for anyone to say that Life Teen as a program is bad, dangerous, irreverent, etc. In regards to contemporary music at Mass, I've often found that it can be MORE reverent and appropriate. Believe it or not, many of those songs are written by Catholics, are about the Eucharist, etc. A lot of people also falsely assume that if it's not sung in Latin and played on an organ, than it must be sung in Protestant lyrics and played on an electric guitar and drum set. Not the case. I have attended some traditional Masses in which big, trained choirs up in the loft seemed to be putting on a bigger show for themselves, not focusing on the Mass. Personally, I find a couple of guys on acoustic guitar playing music that conforms to Catholic teaching far more humble and reverent. At my parish, we even blend organ with acoustic guitar, or do a mix up between traditional hymns and contemporary music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1307132132' post='2249577'] I think it can be agreed upon that those who have a bad taste for Life Teen accredit their feelings towards the youth ministers, core members, and other adult helpers who do not properly catechize the youth, keep a reverent atmosphere during Mass, and allow for things to go on that are not in conformity with the Church. However. Life Teen as a program in and of itself is very doctrine oriented and is in complete agreement with all the Church teachings. So, I think it is unfair for anyone to say that Life Teen as a program is bad, dangerous, irreverent, etc. In regards to contemporary music at Mass, I've often found that it can be MORE reverent and appropriate. Believe it or not, many of those songs are written by Catholics, are about the Eucharist, etc. A lot of people also falsely assume that if it's not sung in Latin and played on an organ, than it must be sung in Protestant lyrics and played on an electric guitar and drum set. Not the case. I have attended some traditional Masses in which big, trained choirs up in the loft seemed to be putting on a bigger show for themselves, not focusing on the Mass. Personally, I find a couple of guys on acoustic guitar playing music that conforms to Catholic teaching far more humble and reverent. At my parish, we even blend organ with acoustic guitar, or do a mix up between traditional hymns and contemporary music. [/quote] The whole Catholic music issue is a pervasive, far-reaching debate on PM. Not worth treading too deeply in those waters, lest you attack the ire of KoC or Apo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1307132132' post='2249577']I think it can be agreed upon that those who have a bad taste for Life Teen accredit their feelings towards the youth ministers, core members, and other adult helpers who do not properly catechize the youth, keep a reverent atmosphere during Mass, and allow for things to go on that are not in conformity with the Church. However. Life Teen as a program in and of itself is very doctrine oriented and is in complete agreement with all the Church teachings. So, I think it is unfair for anyone to say that Life Teen as a program is bad, dangerous, irreverent, etc. [/quote] that can all be said about youth ministry in general - it's good or bad depending on who is leading it. of course, there are some who do not like youth ministry. [quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1307132132' post='2249577'] A lot of people also falsely assume that if it's not sung in Latin and played on an organ, than it must be sung in Protestant lyrics and played on an electric guitar and drum set. [/quote] false dichotomy. or is it strawman? i always get those two mixed up. haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinaSt.Cecilia2772 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1307128668' post='2249554'] the rock n roll bands, complete with metal guitars, and drums, singing the protestant praise-and worship music that is NOT acceptable in celebrating the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass---The priest acting the show-host, complete with jokes and "dumbing" down the readings as if teens were not smart enuff to understand the Liturgy of the Word as it is written. The huggy, grab your neighbors, and lets hold hands around the altar scene, and allowing teens to hand out Holy Communion to make them feel "included," even when 1-that ministry is supposed to be extraordinary, and 2- there is obvious improper training of these youth, who most of the time do not understand the importance of this duty. I'm sure the Church approves of LifeTeen, but like everything else, it is the way it is implemented that matters. Personally, I don't think the Holy Mass needs to be re-constructed to appeal to a specific group. (I also disapprove of Polka Masses.) [/quote] Okay, I feel offended about the Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion comment. I myself am a teen who is a Eucharistic minister, and yes at my parish we do have a teen mass. I advocate for youth in the church because we ARE a part of the SAME church that adults are. I think it's sad when adults who should be encouraging youth to be a part of mass and the church are not doing that at all. Believe it or not, youth like me want to be a part of the mass because alot of us want to learn and be a part of the Church as well. As i stated before, i am an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion, and i full well know the responsibilities and importance of this incredible ministry. And not all parishes have improper training of these ministers. I being a witness and participant of training, we don't hold any improper training of ministers regardless of age. I'm sorry if i sound mean, but me being a teen that is really into my faith and my church ministries, i feel offended by someone saying that youth shouldn't be "included" in the mass. We also have youth lectors, ushers, and altar servers. My pastor does a great job with helping the youth be a part of the church, which i think we should allow more. That's how i feel complete within my faith and my faith in the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 umm, how many times does DS have to say that she is specifically talking about the LifeTeen program at her parish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 and i've seen awful EMs - at basically any parish Mass I've gone to. sloppily dressed, disrespectful during the rest of Mass, etc. In my experience, training to be an EM usually consists of maybe a hour class, once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1307132132' post='2249577'] In regards to contemporary music at Mass, I've often found that it can be MORE reverent and appropriate. Believe it or not, many of those songs are written by Catholics, are about the Eucharist, etc. A lot of people also falsely assume that if it's not sung in Latin and played on an organ, than it must be sung in Protestant lyrics and played on an electric guitar and drum set. Not the case. I have attended some traditional Masses in which big, trained choirs up in the loft seemed to be putting on a bigger show for themselves, not focusing on the Mass. Personally, I find a couple of guys on acoustic guitar playing music that conforms to Catholic teaching far more humble and reverent. At my parish, we even blend organ with acoustic guitar, or do a mix up between traditional hymns and contemporary music. [/quote] chica, I play that pipe organ like it's 1999!!! All for His glory! I sure have a blast doing it too! If my little body isn't hurting after Mass, I played it wrong...if that's considered putting on a show, than so be it...God knows... but I will never, in good conscience, ever play a *protestant praise and worship hymn cos I tend to follow what the Church allows to be played, and I've done that all my life...I'm not gonna change now... *(I'm not talking about contemporary Catholic hymns---yet i dont' do contemporary that much, i like me my traditional) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1307133524' post='2249584'] and i've seen awful EMs - at basically any parish Mass I've gone to. sloppily dressed, disrespectful during the rest of Mass, etc. In my experience, training to be an EM usually consists of maybe a hour class, once. [/quote] I've seen more slovenly, distracting, disrespectful ADULT EMs than teen/young adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roamin Catholic Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Why even the need for Teen Masses? The point of the mass is not to separate the congregation, but to bring everyone together. Do the over 60 crowd also deserve a senior mass? The football crowd a Mass where the priest spends his homily predicting football scores? Bring everyone together into one giant celebration of the Eucharist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='LinaSt.Cecilia2772' timestamp='1307132829' post='2249582'] Okay, I feel offended about the Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion comment. I myself am a teen who is a Eucharistic minister, and yes at my parish we do have a teen mass. I advocate for youth in the church because we ARE a part of the SAME church that adults are. I think it's sad when adults who should be encouraging youth to be a part of mass and the church are not doing that at all. Believe it or not, youth like me want to be a part of the mass because alot of us want to learn and be a part of the Church as well. As i stated before, i am an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion, and i full well know the responsibilities and importance of this incredible ministry. And not all parishes have improper training of these ministers. I being a witness and participant of training, we don't hold any improper training of ministers regardless of age. I'm sorry if i sound mean, but me being a teen that is really into my faith and my church ministries, i feel offended by someone saying that youth shouldn't be "included" in the mass. We also have youth lectors, ushers, and altar servers. My pastor does a great job with helping the youth be a part of the church, which i think we should allow more. That's how i feel complete within my faith and my faith in the church. [/quote] [b]you don't need to perform any ministry during the Holy Mass to be "included" [/b] ...just being present to Jesus at His Holy Sacrifice makes you a very important part of the Holy Catholic Church... what did Our Lady do as Jesus died on the cross? She stood at the foot of the Cross worshipping Him, and receiving from Him what only He could give... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 'active participation' does not mean that you have to be 'doing' something at Mass to participate - other than praying and worshipping our Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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