kujo Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1307732673' post='2252101'] "Rigid" like the guy who refuses to accept any opinion that differs in any noticeable degree from "Life Teen is the single greatest Catholic youth organization ever in the 2000+ year history of the Church"? Not buying it. Feed it to someone else. [/quote] Wasn't really talking about LIFE TEEN there. And while your summation of position is appreciated, it is also inaccurate: [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307538644' post='2251221'] It seems like there's a lot of shoddy programs out there, so I guess it's not fair to expect people to universalize their experiences, or mine for that matter. I supposes there's a difference between LIFE TEEN (the inter-national youth ministry program) and Life Teen (the local, parish-level program). One is an ideal (sorta), whereas the other is more muddied due to the dispersal of membership. [/quote] [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307545392' post='2251255'] Totally agreed. The problem is that a lot of bishops don't articulate this vision in a clear or specific manner. It's all "we want to bring Christ to his children" but nothing concrete. That void is often filled with the ambitions, biases and ignorance (willful or otherwise) of others at the parish level, who deviate and create their own little islands of ministry. It's a leadership issue at the top, and a lack of accountability at the bottom. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1307730602' post='2252086'] what i think is weird that on one hand, phatmass is accused of being liberal Catholicism, while at the same time accused of being too 'traddie' (and you know what i mean by that, i hope). idgi. [/quote] Phatmass is a Catholic website with an orthodox mission. The forum is different, as it is populated by actual people who, with an overwhelming majority of Catholics, have their own "perspective" of the Church - I put "perspective" in quotations because I am speaking of faithful Catholics who, while remaining completely loyal to the Magisterium, have their own "niche" in the Church. I think we often forget who we are speaking to i.e. fellow devout Catholics, and if we remembered that we would not be so quick to be insulted or so quick to misconstrue others' good will. For example (and please, not to start a debate), just because one Catholic says that to receive on the tongue is a more reverent manner of reception does not mean that those who do not receive on the tongue are not being reverent. A lot of things are taken personal because, using the same example, if I have been receiving on the hand all my life and I read something like the aforementioned, I will get upset. But I need to step back and reread or learn without letting my emotions stir. That is my take on it anyway. Edit for grammar mistakes and to add a couple sentences. Edited June 10, 2011 by HisChildForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307732146' post='2252098'] Did I touch a nerve there, princess? [/quote] Now who is being rude? [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307554371' post='2251312'] Don't be rude. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1307733572' post='2252112'] Phatmass is a Catholic website with an orthodox mission. The forum is different, as it is populated by actual people who, with an overwhelming majority of Catholics, have their own "perspective" of the Church - I put "perspective" in quotations because I am speaking of faithful Catholics who, while remaining completely loyal to the Magisterium, have their own "niche" in the Church. I think we often forget who we are speaking to i.e. fellow devout Catholics, and if we remembered that we would not be so quick to be insulted or so quick to misconstrue others' good will. For example (and please, not to start a debate), just because one Catholic says that to receive on the tongue is a more reverent manner of reception does not mean that those who do not receive on the tongue are not being reverent. A lot of things are taken personal because, using the same example, if I have been receiving on the hand all my life and I read something like the aforementioned, I will get upset. But I need to step back and reread or learn without letting my emotions stir. That is my take on it anyway. Edit for grammar mistakes and to add a couple sentences. [/quote] true, (and I agree with what you've said) but.... i'm speaking more about the administration being accused of what I was talking about, not the general population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamomile Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) Why isn't this thread closed? It just seems to incite petty insults and encourages a major lack of charity and understanding, and no real debating is actually taking place. ETA: this isn't directed at anyone in particular, just the general feeling I get from everything that's been written. There have been good points and nice people saying good things, but overall.... Edited June 10, 2011 by Chamomile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 [quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1307735592' post='2252131'] Why isn't this thread closed? It just seems to incite petty insults and encourages a major lack of charity and understanding, and no real debating is actually taking place. ETA: this isn't directed at anyone in particular, just the general feeling I get from everything that's been written. There have been good points and nice people saying good things, but overall.... [/quote] Good point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Outside of past liturgical abuse, which the life teen organization changed as soon as the Church asked them to, I have never read anything heretical in any of their materials. They have a strong commitment to orthodoxy and good success in bringing teens to place of lasting metanoia, conversion. Proclaiming Jesus Christ and salvation through the Church is not Protestant. Employing skits, street hockey, Life Nights, movies, and other means to reach teens and draw them into worship is an amesome fruit of the organization. Life Teen parishes are not opposed to Traditional forms of worship. Which brings me back to the point that Life Teen is primarily a set of tools - which of course can be abused. I have seen our teens drawn deeper into the wellspring of worship through Adoration, the rosary, chant, the Latin Mass, and other devotions. I introduced all of them through Life Teen. Praise and worship may not be your type of music but I see no fault in singing it at youth group, in Bible study, or at adoration. I have used Life Teen this past year and plan on using it next year. It is sometimes light on content for well educated Catholic teens so I supplement, but is a great tool to get teens up to speed who really are starting at the beginning due to liberal catechesis. We do not do Life Teen Masses, but the methodology of the Life Night is similar to St. John Bosco's methodology and the ecclesial method employed by the best catechetical institutes in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 As for dancing during Mass in the Latin rite listen to Cardinal Arinze. He also speaks of secular music. "we dont go to Mass to admire people and clap for them" "As for Europe and North America we think dance should not enter the liturgy at all, and the people discussing liturgical dance should spend that time saying the Rosary." "Young people's rock music is good.. for picnic not for Mass [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rJFdmmqj_s[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 [quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1307735592' post='2252131'] Why isn't this thread closed? It just seems to incite petty insults and encourages a major lack of charity and understanding, and no real debating is actually taking place. ETA: this isn't directed at anyone in particular, just the general feeling I get from everything that's been written. There have been good points and nice people saying good things, but overall.... [/quote] I think "the good points by nice people saying good things" was enough to keep it open for a bit. Perhaps too much 'hope' was placed in that. But I think you are right, Chamomile... I think Brother Adam's post is the perfect end to this thread [quote]Outside of past liturgical abuse, which the life teen organization changed as soon as the Church asked them to, I have never read anything heretical in any of their materials. They have a strong commitment to orthodoxy and good success in bringing teens to place of lasting metanoia, conversion. Proclaiming Jesus Christ and salvation through the Church is not Protestant. Employing skits, street hockey, Life Nights, movies, and other means to reach teens and draw them into worship is an amesome fruit of the organization. Life Teen parishes are not opposed to Traditional forms of worship. Which brings me back to the point that Life Teen is primarily a set of tools - which of course can be abused. I have seen our teens drawn deeper into the wellspring of worship through Adoration, the rosary, chant, the Latin Mass, and other devotions. I introduced all of them through Life Teen. Praise and worship may not be your type of music but I see no fault in singing it at youth group, in Bible study, or at adoration. I have used Life Teen this past year and plan on using it next year. It is sometimes light on content for well educated Catholic teens so I supplement, but is a great tool to get teens up to speed who really are starting at the beginning due to liberal catechesis. We do not do Life Teen Masses, but the methodology of the Life Night is similar to St. John Bosco's methodology and the ecclesial method employed by the best catechetical institutes in the world. [/quote] thanks. - MIKolbe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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