Cam42 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 [quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1308890886' post='2257977'] [...] Also, Micheal Voris makes me want to start a YouTube channel called FakeCatholicTV featuring nothing but news and views from bishops, the Pope, other people Jesus has actually endowed with teaching authority. [/quote] You do realize that he is a theologian, right? That is why he has STB behind his name. It means that he has a Bachelors in Sacred Theology from a Pontifical University in Rome. It is like having a Masters here in the US. In Rome, there are three levels...STL, STB, and STD. These distinctions allow one to teach Sacred Theology, from a Roman point of view. He is entirely within his rights to say and do what he is doing....btw....like me, he doesn't offer any conjecture or opinion, without cited support. You just need to go to his website to get it.... His viewpoint and talking points are as valid as the next theologian's out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 [quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1308890625' post='2257976'] [b]dUSt[/b] answered that, [b]Cam[/b]: Fr. McNamara is a priest. [/quote] So. What does that prove? Fr. McNamara hasn't offered anything which is substantial in overturning the issue at hand. He has only offered his personal opinion. While that opinion is at odds with what I am saying, that certainly doesn't mean that I am wrong. Actually, he's said several times now that this is his personal view and that the "proofs" that he cites don't supercede any instruction from Rome. That being said...I still don't get it. I'm not going to just roll over because Fr. McNamara is a priest...if that were the case, I'd have to do the same thing for Hans Kung, Richard McBrien, Andrew Greeley and on and on and on....there is nothing infallible or even authoritative about what Fr. McNamara said. He even went so far as to level the playing field for he and I, by his first words to me. I certainly respect Fr. McNamara, but there just isn't anything that he has said which alters my position...and even he admits as much in his email to me...when he says that the citation that he provides doesn't hold the same weight as an instruction (sic. teaching) from Rome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) As [b]Maggie[/b]'s comment makes clear, she was referring to the Magisterium, the teaching authority of the Church - the bishops, the pope. Obviously, theologians are not [i]that,[/i] though they may of course teach theology. I had misread his letters as 'STD', assuming he had a doctorate, so thank you for making that correction for me. I've never heard of a STB before; I guess I don't know anyone who has one. Of [i]course[/i] you don't have to cede the point to Fr. McNamara. [b]dUSt[/b] was pointing out that for him [i]personally[/i] to choose an interpretation of the documents, he's going to favor interpretations backed by priests and bishops. That's his choice, not one that everyone else need follow. At least, that is his tendency. I'm sure there would be exceptions, and a priest of dubious orthodoxy obviously wouldn't earn dUSt's respect. I know I shouldn't speak for other people, so I don't know why I'm doing that in this thread right now....I suppose I should back out for awhile and let people speak for themselves. Edited June 24, 2011 by MithLuin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinzo Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 [quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1308810738' post='2257635'] Really, Skinzo? You're going to praise my approach and call someone a 'sovereign pontiff' seeking to feed his ego in the same breath? It's like you don't know me at all, mate. [/quote] Your point is well taken, I'm sorry. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Michael Voris is a smart guy. Cam, you're a smart guy. Fr McNamara is a smart guy. The point, I think, is that the church (proven by the fact that we are debating it) has not really made a clear ruling on today's modern use of projectors/flat screens. The fact is, two learned theologians (Cam and Fr) disagree on the interpretation. That should be evidence enough that the church does not have a clear stance on this particular issue, as it relates to today's usage. Let's just agree that this is the case and trust our local bishops to exercise their authority when it comes to projectors in their own diocese. That's what I'll do anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1308891879' post='2257982'] You do realize that he is a theologian, right? That is why he has STB behind his name. It means that he has a Bachelors in Sacred Theology from a Pontifical University in Rome. It is like having a Masters here in the US. In Rome, there are three levels...STL, STB, and STD. These distinctions allow one to teach Sacred Theology, from a Roman point of view. He is entirely within his rights to say and do what he is doing....btw....like me, he doesn't offer any conjecture or opinion, without cited support. You just need to go to his website to get it.... His viewpoint and talking points are as valid as the next theologian's out there... [/quote] Richard McBrien, S.T.D. Daniel Maguire, S.T.D. Charles Curran, S.T.D. obvs. Voris is not quite at the same level as these bimbos, I'm just saying the letters after the name don't mean much. Lately the Church has an embarrassing problem with theologians putting their theology to work for their ideology and not vice versa. Michael Voris seems to have this problem although in the opposite direction as the above pieces of work. Sure he has every right to say what he wants to say, it's a free country and there's freedom in the Church galore. I just think it's funny he has a YouTube channel called RealCatholicTV that he uses for a soapbox. I mean to use the term RealCatholic, that takes chutzpah. Clearly this individual is not a working theologian. But annnnnywaaaaay.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 [quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1308893036' post='2257989'] Richard McBrien, S.T.D. Daniel Maguire, S.T.D. Charles Curran, S.T.D. obvs. Voris is not quite at the same level as these bimbos, I'm just saying the letters after the name don't mean much. Lately the Church has an embarrassing problem with theologians putting their theology to work for their ideology and not vice versa. Michael Voris seems to have this problem although in the opposite direction as the above pieces of work. Sure he has every right to say what he wants to say, it's a free country and there's freedom in the Church galore. I just think it's funny he has a YouTube channel called RealCatholicTV that he uses for a soapbox. I mean to use the term RealCatholic, that takes chutzpah. Clearly this individual is not a working theologian. But annnnnywaaaaay.... [/quote] Ok, the opposite of heterodoxy is orthodoxy. If Michael Voris is the opposite of those who are heterodox, that would make him orthodox. How is orthodoxy with regard to teaching the faith "a problem?" And he is a working theologian...he has a youtube channel for one reason....some sites (like this one) don't embed his videos from his site very well. If you would like to learn more about Michael Voris, I suggest that you check out [url="http://www.realcatholictv.com/"]RealCatholicTV[/url]. He is a legitimate theologian. This is all he does for a living and he is very good at it. Yes, it does take chutzpah, but in these times, a little chutzpah isn't a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 [quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1308893036' post='2257989'] Sure he has every right to say what he wants to say, it's a free country and there's freedom in the Church galore. I just think it's funny he has a YouTube channel called RealCatholicTV that he uses for a soapbox. I mean to use the term RealCatholic, that takes chutzpah. Clearly this individual is not a working theologian. But annnnnywaaaaay.... [/quote] You wouldn't be implying that he's [i]not[/i] a real Catholic, would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308899004' post='2258002'] You wouldn't be implying that he's [i]not[/i] a real Catholic, would you? [/quote] What if he's made out of toast or chee[size="3"]se[/size] curds? Or worse yet, a combination of toast and chee[size="3"]se[/size] curds packed together very tightly in a way that would allow such a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1308901884' post='2258016'] What if he's made out of toast or chee[size="3"]se[/size] curds? Or worse yet, a combination of toast and chee[size="3"]se[/size] curds packed together very tightly in a way that would allow such a thing? [/quote] fiddler philter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1308901884' post='2258016'] What if he's made out of toast or chee[size="3"]se[/size] curds? Or worse yet, a combination of toast and chee[size="3"]se[/size] curds packed together very tightly in a way that would allow such a thing? [/quote] He would then be from the Archdiocese of Milwaukee... I'm just sayin'..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1308901884' post='2258016'] What if he's made out of toast or chee[size="3"]se[/size] curds? Or worse yet, a combination of toast and chee[size="3"]se[/size] curds packed together very tightly in a way that would allow such a thing? [/quote] We could use the che[u][/u]ese curds for poutine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308899004' post='2258002'] You wouldn't be implying that he's [i]not[/i] a real Catholic, would you? [/quote] I think [b]he's[/b] implying that he is the only real Catholic. Or rather, that the POV he espouses is the only one that's really Catholic. Everything else is liberal and heterodox or rather LIBERAL AND HETERODOX. I believe it was Voris who said (on the Vortex) that only Catholics should be able to vote and that a benevolent dictatorship was the best form of government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 [quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1308927269' post='2258084'] I think [b]he's[/b] implying that he is the only real Catholic. Or rather, that the POV he espouses is the only one that's really Catholic. Everything else is liberal and heterodox or rather LIBERAL AND HETERODOX. I believe it was Voris who said (on the Vortex) that only Catholics should be able to vote and that a benevolent dictatorship was the best form of government. [/quote] Could you please post that episode of the Vortex? I don't doubt he said it, but I would like to know the context in which he did say it...he tends to have a very dry and developed sense of humor... As for his point of view, well....he is coming from a pretty narrow point of view. Narrow isn't bad though, because he is dealing only with those things which are heterodox and liberal. There is plenty he doesn't have to talk about, because there is no issue. Most people who don't like him, don't like him because he cuts to their quick. He addresses things which make them feel uncomfortable. It challenges them to think and act in a way that they thought they didn't have to think and act any longer, because of the "liberating" action of the last 40+ years; when in all actuality that isn't the case. So, I wouldn't be so quick to say EVERYTHING else...I would say SPECIFICALLY THOSE THINGS.... Perhaps he isn't your cup of tea, speaking directly to you, but you cannot deny his ability to speak about these issues as being invalid, just because you don't like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St9kZqWxNfU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St9kZqWxNfU[/url] Note this is a copy of his vid, I believe he deleted the original off his channel when the firestorm erupted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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