Hymns Projected On A Wall?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='AdamUp' timestamp='1308229623' post='2254547']
I certainly agree with what you are saying, however I was born the 1980's and didnt get to experience the changes that occured with pre and post Vatican II. I have not been to a Latin Mass or to a Mass where the Priest faces the tabernacle whilst preparing the eucharist. These are things that I am told about that happened from my parents era. However alot of the hymns that are sung at our church seem to be all written in the 1970's and we have a folk band playing them. Now Im not against it as I am used to it, but surely that must of been a big change from the hymns written in the 19th century and played on a organ. Change is inevitable but it needs to stick with traditional understanding.
[/quote]
Do you ever feel like you're missing out? Don't you feel, once in a while, that you'd actually like to hear the propers? Even chanted? Have you ever heard the propers? I haven't, in the Novus Ordo. I didn't know they existed until relatively recently.
Not all of the changes in the recent history of the Church have been for the better. There have been people trying to force a flawed understanding of Vatican II and the Church onto the rest of us, and in some areas they succeeded.

[loveletslive]

in hungary a lot of the churches have screens they project the hymns on since they don't have hymnals in the pews. it looks strange against the beautiful baroque altars and such, but they can retract the screens when not in use

[Cam42]

[quote name='loveletslive' timestamp='1308347952' post='2255337']
in hungary a lot of the churches have screens they project the hymns on since they don't have hymnals in the pews. it looks strange against the beautiful baroque altars and such, but they can retract the screens when not in use
[/quote]

Hey, I think that this is a great idea...even if the Church says it's a big no, no.

We know better than the Church. It's not a big deal, as long as we are able to see the words, because to worship properly we need to be able to see the words of the songs....because that makes churches more green, in not using so much paper.

[Ash Wednesday]

Aside from the fact that I think projected hymns on a wall look stupid and whatever else people want to argue against them -- from what I've seen, they aren't as practical as they intend to be. Not everyone can see the fricken screen, you got people in your way, you're at a funny angle, or for whatever reason you have issues with your vision when they dim the lights....

Sheets of paper or a simple hymnal is fine, and really easier for people to use and read than trying to use a big distracting screen.

[img]http://www.dailyruse.com/graphics/happy_gilmore-,=--.jpg[/img]

Edited June 17, 2011 by Ash Wednesday

[RandomProddy]

They are a pain in a lot of ways - Had to spend a few hours last week ordering and fitting a new bulb - and I'm currently arm-deep in a massive pile of cables half-way up a church wall trying to fit it!

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308169644' post='2254181']
Ah, but that's the issue, isn't it?
Sacred architecture seems to be a dying art, but it's so important. Everything in a parish, from the building itself to the iconography, to the music, has a very specific purpose that is directed towards the traditional understanding of worship.
[/quote]
We have combined 5 or 6 parishes now and Father is making sure ALL the good stuff -statues, windows, pulpits crosses etc and all coming to be combined in our new parish. amesome!!!!!

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1308424836' post='2255670']
We have combined 5 or 6 parishes now and Father is making sure ALL the good stuff -statues, windows, pulpits crosses etc and all coming to be combined in our new parish. amesome!!!!!
[/quote]
That's a good start. Hopefully he can take those disparate elements and combine them tastefully. I've seen examples on NLM where everything they had was just crammed somewhere in the sanctuary and nave- it looked not so nice. Proper arrangement of the different elements is crucial.

[Cam42]

From Holy Mother Church:

[quote]73. [b]The use of [u]any kind[/u] of projector[/b], and particularly movie projectors, with or without sound track, is [b][u]strictly forbidden[/u] in church for any reason[/b], even if it be for a pious, religious, or charitable cause.

[/quote]

That should just about solve this issue.

[url="http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/DocumentContents/Index/2/SubIndex/17/DocumentIndex/243"]source[/url]

[Skinzo]

I definitely don't see anything Protestant about it. But Americans don't know how lucky they are really. American parishes can afford the luxury of debating things like this. If you ever visit the third world, you will see the use of projectors for hymns and the prayers of the congregation will be used in lots of parishes. Why? Because most parishes can't afford paper missals or much else. And no AC either. I'm just trying to say we take certain things for granted which much of the world does not have. That's useful to reflect on. When I saw the way people in the Philippines struggled it gave me a very different perspective when I'm hearing about stuff like this. Or the amount of money an American parish spends on an organ. That would be inconceivable in many other places.

S.

Edited June 21, 2011 by Skinzo

[RandomProddy]

Banned? Someone didn't tell the Archbishop of Paris - or the Pope!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z1xqjFRhF0

[Cam42]

[quote name='Skinzo' timestamp='1308646743' post='2256711']
I definitely don't see anything Protestant about it. But Americans don't know how lucky they are really. American parishes can afford the luxury of debating things like this. If you ever visit the third world, you will see the use of projectors for hymns and the prayers of the congregation will be used in lots of parishes. Why? Because most parishes can't afford paper missals or much else. And no AC either. I'm just trying to say we take certain things for granted which much of the world does not have. That's useful to reflect on. When I saw the way people in the Philippines struggled it gave me a very different perspective when I'm hearing about stuff like this. Or the amount of money an American parish spends on an organ. That would be inconceivable in many other places.

S.
[/quote]


It is a fallacy to drill the Church down to her lowest common denominator and compare the third world with the developed countries. The Church has been around for 2000 years. She is clear in her teaching and that goes for everyone. She doesn't discriminate between rich and poor, but we do. Hymns projected on a wall are as much an abuse in Nigeria as they are in Niagra Falls. An abuse is an abuse. It's interesting how for thousands of years we didn't have hand missals/missalettes and the Church sang just fine. In teaching Gregorian Chant, I often will have those I am teaching just look at the words and then listen to the music. Then apply the words without the use of the numes. Then I will apply the numes a little later. Really all numes are, are markers as to how many notes to articulate.

Yet, in this day and age, if we can't see it, it doesn't exist. If we can't see it, we can't learn it. That is one of the big downfalls of the Enlightenment and the industrial revolution. The separation of science from faith. If we can't make it material, it can't possibly be done. Hogwash.

Your argument holds no water, because abuse is abuse. It doesn't matter where the Mass is offered. It is the Roman Rite in Nigeria and the same rules apply there as the Roman Rite in Niagra Falls.

If the Mass were not inculturated and it held it's universal character, this wouldn't be an issue. But the Consilium had that as an alterior motive as well....if we nationalize the Mass, it will lose it's meaning unless you're from that particular See or National Conference.

[Cam42]

[quote name='RandomProddy' timestamp='1308655353' post='2256720']
Banned? Someone didn't tell the Archbishop of Paris - or the Pope!

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z1xqjFRhF0"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_Z1xqjFRhF0[/url]
[/quote]


That's not in the context of the Mass, now is it? You're comparing apples and oranges. But the French have long been known to be incredibly tacky Catholics...

[Skinzo]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1308658561' post='2256727']
It is a fallacy to drill the Church down to her lowest common denominator and compare the third world with the developed countries. The Church has been around for 2000 years. She is clear in her teaching and that goes for everyone. She doesn't discriminate between rich and poor, but we do. Hymns projected on a wall are as much an abuse in Nigeria as they are in Niagra Falls. An abuse is an abuse. It's interesting how for thousands of years we didn't have hand missals/missalettes and the Church sang just fine. In teaching Gregorian Chant, I often will have those I am teaching just look at the words and then listen to the music. Then apply the words without the use of the numes. Then I will apply the numes a little later. Really all numes are, are markers as to how many notes to articulate.

Yet, in this day and age, if we can't see it, it doesn't exist. If we can't see it, we can't learn it. That is one of the big downfalls of the Enlightenment and the industrial revolution. The separation of science from faith. If we can't make it material, it can't possibly be done. Hogwash.

Your argument holds no water, because abuse is abuse. It doesn't matter where the Mass is offered. It is the Roman Rite in Nigeria and the same rules apply there as the Roman Rite in Niagra Falls.

If the Mass were not inculturated and it held it's universal character, this wouldn't be an issue. But the Consilium had that as an alterior motive as well....if we nationalize the Mass, it will lose it's meaning unless you're from that particular See or National Conference.
[/quote]

Visit the third world sometime and pass the word little pompous one. Your arguments hold no water because you are not an authority in the Church. Not long ago you made your "last post" at Phatmass and shook its "DUST" off your feet. Whatever happened to that little adolescent outburst? Don't answer because I am not interested.
You weren't even around before hand missals, little boy so don't try to kid anyone about what was going on back then. Mother Teresa used to make comparisons between the third world and the developed world and she has considerably more stature than you can muster. "Lord and Master of Orthodoxy" and who recognizes your "authority"?? The yellow sign hanging there must really grate on your nerves. But it's so apropos...

S.

Edited June 21, 2011 by Skinzo

[Skinzo]

Father Edward McNamara, Professor of Liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum university on the use of projectors at Mass:

"Personally I believe that a moderate use of these projections can be of use, above all in presenting the lyrics and music of hymns and sung parts of the Mass. In this sense they could almost be considered as the modern equivalent of the large choir books of medieval times. These outsized books which contained the musical notation for Mass and the Divine Office were usually placed at the center of the choir so as to be visible to all.

I am less enthusiastic about projecting prayers, readings and other proclaimed texts as these should be listened to rather than read. Even here, however, it could be argued that the projection is no more distracting than a hand missal or any number of other liturgical resources commonly found in parishes.

It is also cheaper as the parish does not have to invest in hundreds of weekly bulletins or expensive hymnals."

http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur319.htm

S.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Skinzo' timestamp='1308659585' post='2256732']
Visit the third world sometime and pass the word little pompous one. Your arguments hold no water because you are not an authority in the Church. Not long ago you made your "last post" at Phatmass and shook its "DUST" off your feet. Whatever happened to that little adolescent outburst? Don't answer because I am not interested.
You weren't even around before hand missals, little boy so don't try to kid anyone about what was going on back then. Mother Teresa used to make comparisons between the third world and the developed world and she has considerably more stature than you can muster. "Lord and Master of Orthodoxy" and who recognizes your "authority"?? The yellow sign hanging there must really grate on your nerves. But it's so apropos...

S.
[/quote]


Blah, blah, blah....

I know that I am no authority in the Church, but I know what the authority says and as a Catholic, I am obliged to make it known. You might not like it, but there it is. I will answer, because, like it or not, this is a public board and I feel that I have something to offer it.

You weren't around when WWI happened, yet you accept that it happened. So, your whole, unless you were there schtick....not so much....it's called history and tradition, son. And we can learn from it, without actually being there (read Decartes much? You should....and you'll see the error in that statement you made).

Yes, Mother Teresa did make comparisons between the third world and the developed world, but not when it came to the Mass. That is what we're talking about here. If we want to talk about the socio-ecomonc status, I agree with her view on most things. Not all, but most. BTW, she's a nice lady. I met her when she was at the Mount, before she died. I actually had a conversation with her...you know, one on one...it was pretty cool.

Now, the final piece. I've offered an apology to dUSt. I offered an apology anyone who wants to accept it. I am not going to dwell on this. My feelings were hurt and I hurt feelings....there is another thread about that, so if you want to discuss that seek that thread out, but stay on topic here and leave the rest out. If you're truly not interested in what I have to say, there is a nice little ignore button...feel free to use it.

But, regardless of what your personal feelings about me are, you're wrong about the third world being justified in using projectors. The Church condemns it and therefore as a Catholic, so do I and so should every other Catholic.