Pope Benedict On Music And The Liturgy

[dUSt]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1306872954' post='2248279']
As part of the homily. Please make that distinction. It is an important one.
[/quote]
I already did. But you said the Gospel wasn't designed to be read, so why read it, even during the homily?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1306865159' post='2248225']
I understand the chanting of the Psalms, but I am having a hard time visioning chanting the readings. Help me out here. What value does chanting add to text that is designed to be read?
[/quote]

Beauty, Splendor, Honor, Respect, etc... I can see having to take children in and out of the Mass as a good reason to Proclaim the readings twice. In the event it's missed the first time. I don't believe time is that big of issue. At a low EF the readings are proclaimed twice and the Mass time is just about the same as a OF. Also I'm not really sure that proclaiming the readings twice in the OF would be against the Rubrics of the OF, but ether way what actually matters is that the readings sung in both the vernacular and Latin are beautiful.


[quote]

[b][url="http://www.ccwatershed.org/blog/2011/may/2/singing-readings-mass/"]Singing The Readings At Mass[/url][/b] [i]published 2 May 2011 by [url="http://www.ccwatershed.org/staff/jeff-ostrowski/"] Jeff Ostrowski [/url][/i] How does a priest know how to correctly chant the readings (1st Reading, 2nd Reading, & Gospel) using the Prophecy tone, the Epistle tone, and different versions of the Gospel tones (according to the rules in the [i]Liber Usualis[/i]) in English?

[url="http://www.ccwatershed.org/pdfs/how-chant-readings-english-catholic-mass/download/"][i]Examples (written out) of the different tones for chanting[/i] (PDF)[/url]

Mp3 Audio Recordings of the different tones:

[url="http://www.ccwatershed.org/blog/2011/may/2/singing-readings-mass/"]Go to link to listen to the MP3 of the Chants[/url]


[/quote]

ETA: Also singing the proclamation of the readings is part of Tradition, even before the time of Christ's birth.

Edited May 31, 2011 by KnightofChrist

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1306873091' post='2248281']
I already did. But you said the Gospel wasn't designed to be read, so why read it, even during the homily?
[/quote]
The Liturgy of the Word is primarily an act of worship, however the homily is intended for the benefit of the faithful. You're not listening.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1306873529' post='2248289']
The Liturgy of the Word is primarily an act of worship, however the homily is intended for the benefit of the faithful. You're not listening.
[/quote]
OK, if you don't feel like explaining I understand. I'll just remain confused about your statement.

Also, what about parishes who have horrible singers or people who flat out can't sing. Honestly, when I attend mass at a parish where the singing is bad, it's just more of a distraction than an act of worship. I find myself cringing as opposed to praying. This is particularly true of the responsorial psalm, where it is common in today's liturgy for it to be sung. If it's tough to get through that, I can just imagine how much worse it would be to get through the entire Gospel reading.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1306874188' post='2248296']
OK, if you don't feel like explaining I understand. I'll just remain confused about your statement.

Also, what about parishes who have horrible singers or people who can't sing. Honestly, when I attend mass at a parish where the singing is bad, it's just more of a distraction than an act of worship. I find myself cringing as opposed to praying. This is particularly true of the responsorial psalm, where it is common in today's liturgy for it to be sung. If it's tough to get through that, I can just imagine how much worse it would be to get through the entire Gospel reading.
[/quote]
I have explained. As I said, you're not listening.

Priests should be trained in chant at seminary, and poor singers should not be doing the responsorial Psalm.
Of course Canon Law says that priests should be trained in Latin too, and look at how well that's been working.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1306874319' post='2248300']
Priests should be trained in chant at seminary, and poor singers should not be doing the responsorial Psalm.
[/quote]
I could train for 30 years and I doubt I'd be a passable singer.
If "good" singing is not an option for a parish, should they just be read instead?

[dUSt]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1306874319' post='2248300']
I have explained. As I said, you're not listening.
[/quote]
You haven't explained why the Gospel should be read during the homily if the Gospel was not designed to be read.

[Papist]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1306867487' post='2248240']
Well the trouble is that you're making the assumption that they're designed to be read. Strictly speaking, the Mass is an act of worship, so in that sense, in the EF at least, the Gospel and epistles, etc., are intended as acts of worship first. As I said earlier, directed towards God on behalf of the congregation by the alter Christus.
[/quote]
They are called readings, not chantings, no? If chanting is the better option, then why read them afterwards? The mere fact something is chanted doesn't make it better.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1306874534' post='2248305']
You haven't explained why the Gospel should be read during the homily if the Gospel was not designed to be read.
[/quote]
Yes I have. You're not listening to the distinction that I'm making.

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1306874643' post='2248306']
They are called readings, not chantings, no? If chanting is the better option, then why read them afterwards? The mere fact something is chanted doesn't make it better.
[/quote]
I've explained this already. The Liturgy of the Word is an act of worship primarily, and the homily is for the benefit of the faithful primarily- different functions. Therefore the chanting of the Gospel can be considered preferable during the Liturgy of the Word, as it is more suited for formal worship, and a simple vernacular recitation is much preferable in the homily, where it is now intended to be understood primarily by the congregation.
It's not about whether 'The Gospel' should be chanted or spoken. It's about whether the Liturgy of the Word should be chanted, and I think it should, as I explained above. However, the homily is not at all the same as the Liturgy of the Word.


Also, moving backwards a bit (to the amount of time in the Liturgy of the Word), a very helpful friend of mine said the following to me:


In your discussion about chanting v. not chanting. And the length etc....with regard to music...think about this...In the NO there are two readings and an elongated psalm which is call and response. That adds a ton of time. In the Traditional Latin Mass, there is one lesson, then there is a gradual/tract and gospel. The time is infinitely shorter. So, even with the chanting in Latin first, which is the actual proclamation of the readings, it is still shorter to have the re-reading in English following. BTW, there is no absolute that the readings have to be done in English....

So, to sum this up quickly:

Novus Ordo: 1st reading/repsonsorial psalm/2nd reading/alleluia/gospel.

Traditional Latin Mass: lesson/gradual/alleuia (tract)/gospel

The Traditional Latin Mass is much, much shorter...and the lesson usually isn't dragged out to include all the fluffiness of the NO readings....

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1306874534' post='2248305']
You haven't explained why the Gospel should be read during the homily if the Gospel was not designed to be read.
[/quote]

"[b]In order to stir the hearts of the faithful and convey the importance of the Gospel itself[/b], the greeting, the announcement of the reading, the concluding acclamation and [b]even the entire Gospel may be sung[/b]." --[url="http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/innews/042000.shtml"]Introduction to the Book of the Gospels[/url]

[dUSt]

The Gospel is the high point in the Liturgy of the Word. After the Gospel is read, we reply, directly to Jesus, "Praise to You Lord Jesus Christ." Yet, we should then hear it again, after that, just so we can understand what we just responded to? I don't know. Seems weird.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1306874534' post='2248305']
You haven't explained why the Gospel should be read during the homily if the Gospel was not designed to be read.
[/quote]

"[b]In order to stir the hearts of the faithful and convey the importance of the Gospel itself[/b], the greeting, the announcement of the reading, the concluding acclamation and [b]even the entire Gospel may be sung[/b]." --[url="http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/innews/042000.shtml"]Introduction to the Book of the Gospels[/url]

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1306875193' post='2248314']
The Gospel is the high point in the Liturgy of the Word. After the Gospel is read, we reply, directly to Jesus, "Praise to You Lord Jesus Christ." Yet, we should then hear it again, after that, just so we can understand what we just responded to? I don't know. Seems weird.
[/quote]

I guess it could also seem 'weird', and one could argue that its more redundant to have Missals being read by the faithful when the Mass is already in the vernacular. But I don't have a problem with either.

[Papist]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1306873269' post='2248286']
Beauty, Splendor, Honor, Respect, etc... I can see having to take children in and out of the Mass as a good reason to Proclaim the readings twice. In the event it's missed the first time. I don't believe time is that big of issue. At a low EF the readings are proclaimed twice and the Mass time is just about the same as a OF. Also I'm not really sure that proclaiming the readings twice in the OF would be against the Rubrics of the OF, but ether way what actually matters is that the readings sung in both the vernacular and Latin are beautiful.
[/quote]
[font="Tahoma"][size="2"]So chanting the readings you believe is showing beauty, splendor, honor, respect, etc. is. Why by the mere fact chanting them achieves this? I believe listening to the readings with an open mind and heart adhering to its Word shows beauty, splendor, honor, respect, etc. I am not confident I'd be able to comprehend the readings if chanted.[/size][/font]

Edited May 31, 2011 by Papist

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1306875402' post='2248320']
[font="Tahoma"][size="2"]So chanting the readings you believe is showing beauty, splendor, honor, respect, etc. is. Why by the mere fact chanting them achieves this? I believe listening to the readings with an open mind and heart adhering to its Word shows beauty, splendor, honor, respect, etc. I am not confident I'd be able to comprehend the readings if chanted.[/size][/font]
[/quote]

"[b]In order to stir the hearts of the faithful and convey the importance of the Gospel itself[/b], the greeting, the announcement of the reading, the concluding acclamation and [b]even the entire Gospel may be sung[/b]." --[url="http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/innews/042000.shtml"]Introduction to the Book of the Gospels[/url]