I'm Going To A Greek Orthodox Mass Tomorrow

[Debra Little]

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1306955762' post='2248821']
That is not true. There are many wonderful Christians who love our Lord who will be in heaven
and they are not Catholic. I think we will be surprised at some of the people we see in heaven
and be even more surprised at the some of them who won't be there. No one who does't
love can be in heaven. No one aside from Jesus Christ will be able to save us. The Church
in general has failed me immensely, the Catholic Church more than other other. Does no one
notice how bad the Church is right now? One doesn't have to be blind to see this. But I imagine
to those who have the luxury and the blessing of attending Mass wherever they like don't see this.
They forget the rest of us who find it impossible to even there. Do not Judge!



If I were you I'd be more concerned with what God thinks than a human
hierarchy.
[/quote]




The body of Christ is the universal church, in all its denominations. We cannot claim ourselves to
be above everyone else.

[Debra Little]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1306952293' post='2248773']
I find it so sad, though, that people are so obsessed with rules. When Christ asked Peter to 'feed his sheep' he did not ask if he would obsessively dot the i and cross the t's, he asked 'Do you love me?'. I know we do need guidelines, and I know that there are truths that we cannot deny, but I can't help but be reminded of the Pharasees sometimes.
[/quote]




This is exactly what I wrote in my email to my sister a couple of days ago, only in different words.
It is not right or fair to put burdens on the shoulders of our brothers and sisters that God never
meant for them to bear.

[Chamomile]

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1306907159' post='2248604']
there is no obstacle to my salvation. it is assured by my faith in the sacrifice
of Jesus on the Cross.
[/quote]

I didn't read but a few replies after this reply to my post... I just wanted to let you know that I wasn't directing that at you, Debra, but to everyone. We all have to take care to remain awake and wait for the Bridegroom with lit lamps...

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1306959608' post='2248887']
No. Only God is infallible. The holy father is the authority God has chosen to lead the Church but he is
a human being, subject to all the frailties of human nature. I believe the Catholic Church is the true
Church or I wouldn't have converted. I do not believe in the power of any Document or Church to
save me. Only Jesus Christ cans save. Only faith in His name will save. Nothing else.
[/quote]
It is unfortunate that you believe dogma to be fallible, because that places you at serious risk of heresy. To reject any dogma of the Catholic Church is by definition to be a formal heretic. As a Catholic your position is unacceptable, and I, like Red, would seriously recommend a very urgent regimen of study and prayer.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1306959608' post='2248887']
No. Only God is infallible. The holy father is the authority God has chosen to lead the Church but he is
a human being, subject to all the frailties of human nature. I believe the Catholic Church is the true
Church or I wouldn't have converted. I do not believe in the power of any Document or Church to
save me. Only Jesus Christ cans save. Only faith in His name will save. Nothing else.
[/quote]
This is not what the Holy Catholic Church, which is the Church you yourself have just said that you believe is the True Church, teaches.

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1306959690' post='2248888']
The body of Christ is the universal church, in all its denominations. We cannot claim ourselves to
be above everyone else.
[/quote]
The universal Church is the Catholic Church. The other (diluted) 'Christianities' are perversions of the True Church. Have you done much studying about how the Protestants and their religions came about?

Edited June 1, 2011 by USAirwaysIHS

[Debra Little]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1306960309' post='2248893']
This is not what the Holy Catholic Church, which you yourself have just confessed to be the True Church, teaches.


The universal Church is the Catholic Church. The other (diluted) 'Christianities' are perversions of the True Church. Have you done much studying about how the Protestants and their religions came about?
[/quote]

You forget that I was raised on all that and I truly do believe that
Martin Luther was a heretic. He left the only good thing there is
for something half as good. Thanks for clarifying this. When you use
the word "diluted" it makes more sense.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1306960435' post='2248895']
You forget that I was raised on all that and I truly do believe that
Martin Luther was a heretic. He left the only good thing there is
for something half as good. Thanks for clarifying this. When you use
the word "diluted" it makes more sense.
[/quote]
How can he be a heretic if dogma isn't infallible?

[Chamomile]

So now I've read the other posts, and I just want to say... Debra and faith, please continue to persevere in love - I can see that you're both very much in love with Jesus, and that's beautiful and inspiring.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1306960768' post='2248899']
So now I've read the other posts, and I just want to say... Debra and faith, please continue to persevere in love - I can see that you're both very much in love with Jesus, and that's beautiful and inspiring.
[/quote]
agreed. with any hard teaching of the Church - it takes time, study, and prayer to fully assent your will to what the Church is saying. i implore you to keep trying.

[Debra Little]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1306955477' post='2248811']
It's been solemnly defined by the Church. If anyone is saved, it is through the Church. One cannot be Catholic and hold otherwise.
[/quote]




Why didn't you explain what dogma is? I am reading in the Catholic Encycllopedia

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05089a.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05089a.htm[/url]

and it is beginning to make sense. They explain the word dogma as decree and
made reference to Luke 2 when all the people were called to their home towns
to register for the census. This was a decree of the governor.

Please understand, though, where I am coming from. I have been very much burned
by religion and just believing things in the past got me in a lot of trouble that it tooks
years to get past, to clear my head of all the junk. Part of my reaction is only self-
preservation. I am only trying very hard to not become confused again and go through
the hell I went through in the past. It has been very difficult to sift through all this stuff
and figure out what should go and what should be kept. At first I threw the baby out
with the bathwater but by doing that I threw away valuable things that I got back
once I realized my mistake.

It's too bad you think I'm a heretic but I will try not to take this to heart. I believe
you are sincerely trying to help. Please do take into account what I've just said
and judge all future responses by that. Thanks. I appreciate your help. Please
pray for me because I am very afraid of just believing anything point blank unless
I know it for a fact to be real and true. If God shows me to believe something I will
believe it but it is very hard to accept things just because someone said so.

And do not take me wrong. I love the Holy Father. I think he is amesome.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1306961002' post='2248901']
It's too bad you think I'm a heretic but I will try not to take this to heart. I believe
you are sincerely trying to help. Please do take into account what I've just said
and judge all future responses by that. Thanks. I appreciate your help. Please
pray for me because I am very afraid of just believing anything point blank unless
I know it for a fact to be real and true. If God shows me to believe something I will
believe it but it is very hard to accept things just because someone said so.

[/quote]

Just know as you get closer and closer in your relationship with Jesus and the Virgin Mary and continue to pray and receive the Eucharist, the finer points (like these) will be revealed to you as time passes.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1306961002' post='2248901']
It's too bad you think I'm a heretic but I will try not to take this to heart. I believe
you are sincerely trying to help. Please do take into account what I've just said
and judge all future responses by that. Thanks. I appreciate your help. Please
pray for me because I am very afraid of just believing anything point blank unless
I know it for a fact to be real and true. If God shows me to believe something I will
believe it but it is very hard to accept things just because someone said so.

[/quote]

Just know as you get closer and closer in your relationship with Jesus and the Virgin Mary and continue to pray and receive the Eucharist, the finer points (like these) will be revealed to you as time passes.

[Debra Little]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1306961117' post='2248903']

Just know as you get closer and closer in your relationship with Jesus and the Virgin Mary and continue to pray and receive the Eucharist, the finer points (like these) will be revealed to you as time passes.
[/quote]




I need to get to Mass and and last week I could have gone but on Saturday
I thought it was Friday and I was not out when my ride left. I miss receiving
Jesus so much it just about makes me cry. I am feeling starved!

[Debra Little]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1306960522' post='2248896']
How can he be a heretic if dogma isn't infallible?
[/quote]

Please explain your sense of infallible. He is a heretic because He
left the only true church.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1306961002' post='2248901']
Why didn't you explain what dogma is? I am reading in the Catholic Encycllopedia

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05089a.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05089a.htm[/url]

and it is beginning to make sense. They explain the word dogma as decree and
made reference to Luke 2 when all the people were called to their home towns
to register for the census. This was a decree of the governor.

Please understand, though, where I am coming from. I have been very much burned
by religion and just believing things in the past got me in a lot of trouble that it tooks
years to get past, to clear my head of all the junk. Part of my reaction is only self-
preservation. I am only trying very hard to not become confused again and go through
the hell I went through in the past. It has been very difficult to sift through all this stuff
and figure out what should go and what should be kept. At first I threw the baby out
with the bathwater but by doing that I threw away valuable things that I got back
once I realized my mistake.

It's too bad you think I'm a heretic but I will try not to take this to heart. I believe
you are sincerely trying to help. Please do take into account what I've just said
and judge all future responses by that. Thanks. I appreciate your help. Please
pray for me because I am very afraid of just believing anything point blank unless
I know it for a fact to be real and true. If God shows me to believe something I will
believe it but it is very hard to accept things just because someone said so.

And do not take me wrong. I love the Holy Father. I think he is amesome.
[/quote]
I assume that most Catholics know what a dogma is, or at least ask at the outset if they do not.
I have not called you a heretic, as far as I remember. I said you're in serious danger of heresy, which you are if you continue to deny solemn definitions such as extra ecclesiam nulla salus, infallibility, etc..
As I said, I must seriously recommend a lot of study and prayer. I see that you simply don't understand what we're talking about. That's fine, but it's dangerous too. You must guard yourself against error- the snares of the devil. Everybody needs to learn in order to understand these things, but simply rejecting them out of hand because you don't understand them is a recipe for disaster.

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1306961468' post='2248905']
Please explain your sense of infallible. He is a heretic because He
left the only true church.
[/quote]
Does it matter if he leaves the Church, if you don't believe "extra ecclesiam nulla salus"?


I will say nothing more in this topic. These subjects are critical. They should be studied in a spirit of faith and in continuity with our Church's Tradition. It is our responsibility as Catholics to do our best to understand these things so that we can help those weaker in their faith to come to see the Truth, and so that we might also protect them from the popular errors of our age.