I'm Going To A Greek Orthodox Mass Tomorrow

[Anastasia13]

Our eastern ways shall continue to invade Phatmass... Yay! Muahahaha!

[MIKolbe]

I will be praying, Hasan.

[Debra Little]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' timestamp='1306636667' post='2247205']
Does what matter? Canon Law, or that the Orthodox are not in union with Rome?
[/quote




As long as she is going to Mass does it matter which Mass it is?

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1306705337' post='2247510']
[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' timestamp='1306636667' post='2247205']
Does what matter? Canon Law, or that the Orthodox are not in union with Rome?
[/quote]

As long as she is going to Mass does it matter which Mass it is?
[/quote]
Yes... Catholic and Orthodox are not the same. The Orthodox reject the primacy of the Holy Father (/among other things). The separation is not meaningless.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' timestamp='1306706839' post='2247516']
Yes... Catholic and Orthodox are not the same. The Orthodox reject the primacy of the Holy Father (/among other things). The separation is not meaningless.
[/quote]

[Chamomile]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' timestamp='1306706839' post='2247516']
Yes... Catholic and Orthodox are not the same. The Orthodox reject the primacy of the Holy Father (/among other things). The separation is not meaningless.
[/quote]

Well, the Catholic Church does recognize that the Orthodox Churches are true Churches. I don't know the exact documents or wording on this teaching, but it's a truth in practice, as Orthodox Christians are allowed to receive Holy Communion at Catholic Churches. This is true of no other communion of Churches.

The separation is real, but I don't think it's as major and impossible to reconcile as most people assume. And it goes both ways in terms of coming back together again.

Debra, you asked does it really matter which Mass, and I think that when you're speaking about the difference between the worship of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, you've raised a very important question that can't just be answered by a simple statement that points out a difference and implies others. It is the same act of worship, the same Sacrament, one cup and one Lord. Why then do we have the issue of disunity? It's beyond and above my understanding. You can give all sorts of historical, spiritual, and theological reasons, but I think you've touched on something important. I can't say this for certain, but I think a good number of Orthodox don't see their Liturgy being the same as Catholic worship, while officially, I think the Catholic Church see Orthodox worship more on an even plane, albeit existing in schism. So it's something that can be confusing. But I just wanted to let you know that your question really deserves a deep and thoughtful answer, which I unfortunately and honestly can't provide (and sorry if I've said something wrong out of ignorance).

Prayers for unity...

Edited May 30, 2011 by Chamomile

[Amppax]

So Hasan, how was it?

[Debra Little]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1306727207' post='2247576']

[/quote]

pardon me brother. i thought the Catholic Church and the Orthodox church were united.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1306766599' post='2247652']
Well, the Catholic Church does recognize that the Orthodox Churches are true Churches. I don't know the exact documents or wording on this teaching, but it's a truth in practice, as [b]Orthodox Christians are allowed to receive Holy Communion at Catholic Churches[/b]. This is true of no other communion of Churches.

The separation is real, but I don't think it's as major and impossible to reconcile as most people assume. And it goes both ways in terms of coming back together again.


Prayers for unity...
[/quote]
Only in very extraordinary circumstances, and vice versa.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1306766599' post='2247652']
Why then do we have the issue of disunity? [/quote]
They lack submission to the Holy Father. They reject his authority and primacy. This is not a trifling issue which can simply be overlooked. It is an obstacle to their salvation. Just because they have valid orders and valid sacraments does not give them a free pass; it will avail them nothing if they are not in union with the Catholic Church.

[quote]Prayers for unity...
[/quote]

[Chamomile]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1306779208' post='2247700']
Only in very extraordinary circumstances, and vice versa.
[/quote]

When I googled it (and from what I know in reality) and came across some cannon law stuff, it seems it doesn't have to be incredibly extraordinary for Orthodox to receive at a Catholic Church, but the vice versa is much less common. But both are generally discouraged, in case I made it sound like it was something that should be done often...

[Chamomile]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' timestamp='1306781630' post='2247720']
They lack submission to the Holy Father. They reject his authority and primacy. This is not a trifling issue which can simply be overlooked. It is an obstacle to their salvation. Just because they have valid orders and valid sacraments does not give them a free pass; it will avail them nothing if they are not in union with the Catholic Church.
[/quote]

There are lots of obstacles to our own salvation and the unity of the Churches... some people may see some as more important than others as they are led by the Spirit to see them as such - or as their learning, culture, and experience teaches them. I really just wanted Debra to know that her question was valid and insightful, but it looks like she actually thought something else and so what I wrote is mostly off-topic

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' timestamp='1306781630' post='2247720']

[/quote]

Amen

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1306785614' post='2247749']
When I googled it (and from what I know in reality) and came across some cannon law stuff, it seems it doesn't have to be incredibly extraordinary for Orthodox to receive at a Catholic Church, but the vice versa is much less common. But both are generally discouraged, in case I made it sound like it was something that should be done often...
[/quote]
I'm not a Canon lawyer, of course. The specific section seems slightly more confusing than normal in this case.


[size="2"]Can. 844 §1. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments licitly to Catholic members of the Christian faithful alone, who likewise receive them licitly from Catholic ministers alone, without prejudice to the prescripts of §§2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and ⇒ can. 861, §2.

§2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-

Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.

§3. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed. This is also valid for members of other Churches which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition in regard to the sacraments as these Eastern Churches.

§4. If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who seek such on their own accord, provided that they manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and are properly disposed.

§5. For the cases mentioned in §§2, 3, and 4, the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops is not to issue general norms except after consultation at least with the local competent authority of the interested non-Catholic Church or community.
[/size]


§3 and §4 seem almost contradictory.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1306777826' post='2247687']
pardon me brother. i thought the Catholic Church and the Orthodox church were united.
[/quote]
It's no problem. I'm pleased that you had the chance to learn something new.

[4588686]

[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1306773145' post='2247674']
So Hasan, how was it?
[/quote]

I'm sure it was delightful. Sadly I was not able to make it. I spent the day instead with a very dear friend of mine watching traffic while we talked. Which was quite nice.