Yoga And/or Martial Arts

[Laudate_Dominum]

From what I've seen of the yoga vids on netflix instant watch it has been dumbed down and westernized to the point that it is about as spiritual and pagan as an aerobics workout. I wouldn't be extreme and superstitious about it. If we're talking about Catholics joining some sort of tantric kundalini yoga cult, sure, 'twould be bad. There are whack new age martial arts schools and then there are completely non-spiritual self-defense courses. Same type of deal imo.

[MithLuin]

So, a bit more about the bowing in kendo, for anyone who is curious. Obviously, the roots are in Japan, and are non-Christian. I've found a little bit more about the instructions online:

[quote]If the shrine at the front is Shinto in nature, you would say [i]kamidana ni rei.[/i] If it is Buddhist, you use [i]shinzen ni rei.[/i] If you are a secular dojo, you use [i]shomen ni rei.[/i] [/quote]

Shomen means 'front', so while you are showing respect, it's simply to the front of the room.

Kneeling and bowing your head to the floor in front of a Shinto/Buddhist shrine would not be appropriate for a Christian. In some places, I think 'shomen' is designated by the nation's flag, which would be much less problematic.

While kendo is descended from the kenjitsu that was how the samurai trained, certainly it is much more sports-like and much less martial now. Post-WWII it was suppressed for a bit, and when resurrected shed some of its militant content. It is, however, still used by the police academy in Tokyo to train the officers for riot suppression, so it's not 'just' a game.

While I can understand treating exercise as a culture-free experience, it would seem odd to me to practice a martial art that has been completely stripped and divorced from its roots. I mean...the culture it originated in is not meaningless, and nothing happens in a vacuum, so why would you strip that out? I realize that religion is part of culture, so obviously there is a strong vibe of Eastern philosophy embedded in several martial arts. I don't have any issue with the breathing exercises, and if someone says 'meditate,' there's nothing to stop you from meditating on the name of Jesus. I just think you should be careful about receiving spiritual guidance from someone who is not Catholic. I haven't run into a situation where someone offered that, but I can't say I'm all that experienced with martial arts.

[4588686]

It depends on the dojo. Just don't sign you're kids up for Tae Kwan Do. That has nothing to do with religion. It's just that Tae Kwan Do smells of elderberries.

[Ice_nine]

Can I pose a question(s) to the room?: Is all eastern philosophy [i]bad[/i]? At the risk of being labeled a syncretist I find certain aspects of Eastern thought intriguing although my knowledge is very, very limited. I can see how the Eastern focus on the self merging with secular Western narcissism and superficiality could be a recipe for uh-ohs, but does that make all Eastern thought bad? Religion and philosophy often intertwine and on some occasions are inseparable, and I get how it could be a dangerous line to walk for a novice. I'm just not as willing to chuck half the world's thought out the window without due consideration. I mean there are even Eastern Christian rites (again saying I only have a very elementary understanding) and they seem to incorporate more asceticism into their religious practice (stricter fasting, emphasis on monastic life) that seem similar to their pre-Christian counterparts.

Also as Mith Luin said, if I really wanted to learn a martial art in the true sense of the word, wouldn't it benefit me to study the philosophy behind it? Isn't that like going to a Chinese restaurant where they serve hot dogs? Like you know something ain't right with that.

Just some questions. I've been interested in studying taekwon do, and even thought that's looking like a financial and physically impossibility more and more, I still find it interesting yup

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1306621746' post='2247160']
Can I pose a question(s) to the room?: Is all eastern philosophy [i]bad[/i]? At the risk of being labeled a syncretist I find certain aspects of Eastern thought intriguing although my knowledge is very, very limited. I can see how the Eastern focus on the self merging with secular Western narcissism and superficiality could be a recipe for uh-ohs, but does that make all Eastern thought bad? Religion and philosophy often intertwine and on some occasions are inseparable, and I get how it could be a dangerous line to walk for a novice. I'm just not as willing to chuck half the world's thought out the window without due consideration. I mean there are even Eastern Christian rites (again saying I only have a very elementary understanding) and they seem to incorporate more asceticism into their religious practice (stricter fasting, emphasis on monastic life) that seem similar to their pre-Christian counterparts.

Also as Mith Luin said, if I really wanted to learn a martial art in the true sense of the word, wouldn't it benefit me to study the philosophy behind it? Isn't that like going to a Chinese restaurant where they serve hot dogs? Like you know something ain't right with that.

Just some questions. I've been interested in studying taekwon do, and even thought that's looking like a financial and physically impossibility more and more, I still find it interesting yup
[/quote]
There are some good aspects of Eastern philosophy, however:

Everything good within Eastern philosophy can be found within Catholicism, and;
Everything novel within Eastern philosophy is contrary to Catholicism.

[MithLuin]

Learning about a different culture and subscribing to the philosophy of that culture are two separate things. I don't see any harm in learning. I can learn about the thought processes of a psychopath without accepting that it's okay to go out and murder people (as a very extreme example).

That doesn't mean it isn't dangerous to listen to Ted Bundy explain himself. It just means you [i]can[/i] learn without falling into error. You should be fairly well grounded in the truth and have a well-formed conscience before attempting to do that, though. Kids (for instance) often adopt what they are told fairly unquestioningly (despite all the questions they ask), so if an instructor were to start telling them things that aren't compatible with their faith, there could be some confusion.

The simplest way to deal with this is to stay and watch the practice if you sign your kid up for a martial art. If there are any 'weird vibes' you'll catch on quickly, and can then seek out a different after school activity. It's going to depend upon the worldview of the instructor more than anything, and obviously that varies from dojo to dojo. I mean, if the instructor is Christian, he's probably not going to go out of his way to teach Buddhist stuff in class.....

[PaladinSoG]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1306621499' post='2247156']
It depends on the dojo. Just don't sign you're kids up for Tae Kwan Do. That has nothing to do with religion. It's just that Tae Kwan Do smells of elderberries.
[/quote]

No, that's just me, forgot to put on deodorant.

But really, as long as there is a good teacher taekwndo is really good. I watched a study on tv where they used similar moves from different martial arts and tested out how they held up to each other. Pretty much all the martial arts had there own specialty, muay thai was of course knees and elbows, but it lacked else where. Other martial arts were good with kicks but lacked in punching, some were good with punching but lacked in kicks. The interesting thing though was that taekwando always came in second place in just about everything , punching, kicking, knees, elbows, and what not. I think the only thing it really lacked in was grappling.
So pretty much, taekwando was the jack of all trades kind of martial arts. Of course a tv show is definitely not good for an over all study on anything, was interesting though. But really it just depends on the instructor.

[Ash Wednesday]

I voted "no" on both of them, as far as doing the exercises in themselves. But one does have to be mindful of the schools and instructors that come with it.

I studied taekwondo and hapkido for years and would gladly return to martial arts (maybe once I get a car...) and have also taken yoga classes. In both practices, from what I've seen schools will vary on what they teach you. Some places don't get "spiritual" at all and just teach the stretches and exercises. Some schools start getting into the eastern practices and religions behind them, and that's something to be mindful of.

In my experience it all really depends on the school.

[tinytherese]

I find eastern religions in general to be confusing and I after hearing some proverb of theirs or whatever I think something like, "Uhh...I am the tree and...what?"

I've taken a world religions class on some of the main forms. I did notice however how syncretistic they are, so it's hard to know what they do really believe. You ask two people of the same eastern faith about what they believe and they give you two different answers.

The religiousity reminds me of the Jedi from Star Wars.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1306786964' post='2247758']
I find eastern religions in general to be confusing and I after hearing some proverb of theirs or whatever I think something like, "Uhh...I am the tree and...what?"

I've taken a world religions class on some of the main forms. I did notice however how syncretistic they are, so it's hard to know what they do really believe. You ask two people of the same eastern faith about what they believe and they give you two different answers.

The religiousity reminds me of the Jedi from Star Wars.
[/quote]

They actually have a "Jedi" religion out there, no joke.

In my personal experience, westerners that subscribe to or dabble with eastern religion don't really approach it with much rigidity or take it all that seriously. They often like the idea of a little bit of religion and some sort of moral compass but nothing that particularly rocks the boat all that hard or demands much in their lives. In fact, most western Buddhists I have known were people that were tired of or rebelling against Christianity.

[MithLuin]

Well, the Jedi are (according to George Lucas) what happens when you take a Methodist and cross him with Eastern religion (I think Buddhism, not Shinto). A friend of mine liked to point out that (geographically), you'd wind up with Eastern Orthodoxy if you did that, though I don't think that's what Lucas was going for!

Their amesome lightsaber skills are of course based on samurai from Kurusawa's films. Loosely.

[img]http://apwhod09.pbworks.com/f/samurai.jpg[/img] [img]http://uiswcmsweb.prod.lsu.edu/ArtSci/asianstudies/NewsandEvents/item24571.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.sonypspwalls.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/jedi.jpg[/img]