Lil Red Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 and never at phatmass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1308633039' post='2256694'] Well that's not quite fair. I've only been in the discussion for an hour and helped bring order to the chaos. [/quote] Okay. You're right. And there was a whole,big, long, complicated, off-point argument in there, too. My point is - why don't we just let the experts do the expert-ing? And you get points for trying to bring order out of chaos. I can do it if I have to, but I prefer to walk away from the chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1308633266' post='2256697'] I can do it if I have to, but I prefer to walk away from the chaos. [/quote] [img]http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/wp-content/uploads/spittake.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1308632695' post='2256693'] It only took the rest of the posters an additional [b]74 posts [/b]to come to the same conclusion! [/quote] LORF! +125 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1308632695' post='2256693'] [...] It only took the rest of the posters an additional [b]74 posts [/b]to come to the same conclusion! It reminds me of baseball fans arguing vehemently about what the coach should do and why... even though they're not coaches themselves, have no training as coaches, never played pro ball, never played minor league, never played in college, .... shall I go on? [/quote] Except that I'm an installed acolyte and so is Groo. So, we do have a stake in this on a very real level. As for not having training....well, I've spent the better part of the last 20 years either as a subdeacon or a Master of Ceremonies in both forms of the Roman Rite. So, I would definitely say that I am a coach....don't believe me, friend me on facebook and look at my pictures...it's all there. As an aside, in the Traditional Latin Mass as a subdeacon, I am not allowed to purify at all, because I am considered a "straw." In short, becuase I was never ordained to the subdeaconate, I don't have the proper character to approach the Sacred Species. As a subdeacon, I don't distribute Holy Communion, I hold the paten for the celebrant as he distributes Holy Communion....now, if the EF is to illumine the OF, don't you think that this would be an important distinction to start catechizing about? Proper reverence for the Sacred Species, even among her ministers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1308633266' post='2256697'] Okay. You're right. And there was a whole,big, long, complicated, off-point argument in there, too. My point is - why don't we just let the experts do the expert-ing? And you get points for trying to bring order out of chaos. I can do it if I have to, but I prefer to walk away from the chaos. [/quote] Because for the last 40 years the "experts" have made a mess of this and we have a right to a properly celebrated Mass. We also have a right to make it known to the pastor, the bishop and Rome. If the Church wants a more active role in this manner from the laity, then we have to learn and not just leave the experting to the experts, because, the experts are not really experts, but rather they are shills for the Consiliar (not Conciliar, PLEASE note the difference) establishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1308633039' post='2256694'] I've [...] helped bring order to the chaos. [/quote] are you the Borg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1306428034' post='2246234'] He doesn't need to talk to the priest about it. There simply is no need. He should not be doing it and what good would it do for him or the parents to have a confab about the issue? Wrong is wrong. He should just say no. There is nothing wrong with that. [/quote] [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1306431986' post='2246259'] The boy should not be put in that position to start with. The next time he is scheduled to serve, he should respectfully decline any action which is not proper to him. There is no need for a confab. [/quote] I stopped reading this thread about at these posts... just not all that interested. So, if I miss something that's said later, forgive me. You certainly have a different way of dealing with children (and I'm assuming that the altar boy in question here is a boy, right?) than I do. I would not put my son in the awkward possition of having to say "no" when told to do something when it would be more proactive to nip the problem in the bud. Why *wouldn't* you want to save the boy from being embarrassed? Why would you *want* to put him in an awkward position? What good would a confab do? What harm would it do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Hmm... It seems like all the priests who were asked about this agree that drying is separate from purifying. I'm pretty sure everyone agreed from page 1 that purifying should only be done by the priest or acolyte. I think the only thing we disagree on is whether or not drying is the same as purifying. It seems this is a case of several priests disagreeing with some learned phatmassers, and I for one, am not convinced either way. The documents Cam and jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) cited do not really explain if drying is the same as purifying--in fact, I think they actually say the opposite--that drying is indeed a separate action from purifying. So, at this point, I'm still leaning toward drying is allowed by the altar servers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I changed my mind again, after reading this from a priest in Detroit, who outlines the process in great detail: http://www.vpc.transfiguration-parish.org/VesselPurification.htm [quote]At the outset, a distinction should be made. "Purification" refers to the act of removing any particles of the Host or Precious Blood. The paten or ciborium is purified by wiping it clean with a purificator. The chalice is purified by water (or water and wine), drinking the contents and wiping out he remaining droplets of water with a purificator. This is a priestly ritual. "Washing" the vessels refers to the preparation of the vessels for their next use. In this case, the vessels may be washed in hot water using a mild soap to remove any lipstick or germs that remain. This activity may be done by a non-ordained minister, very often the sacristan. After washing and drying, the vessels are either put away or prepared for use at the next Mass. This is a practical task.[/quote] Again though, nothing cited from Rome that makes it a black and white issue, so now I'm just leaning the other way just as hesitantly as I was leaning the opposite way in my last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I'm with Winchester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Fr Z's post the other day seems pertinent to this thread. Reminds me of one of Cam's earlier posts. Maybe they should hang out. [url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/07/quaeritur-can-emchs-purify-sacred-vessels-after-holy-communion/"]Can EMHCs purify sacred vessels after Holy Communion?[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1310672281' post='2267452'] Fr Z's post the other day seems pertinent to this thread. Reminds me of one of Cam's earlier posts. Maybe they should hang out. [url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/07/quaeritur-can-emchs-purify-sacred-vessels-after-holy-communion/"]Can EMHCs purify sacred vessels after Holy Communion?[/url] [/quote] Looks like he is confirming what everyone in this thread has already said. Unfortunately. Fr Z doesn't clarify if "drying" is the same thing as "purifying". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1310674371' post='2267459'] Looks like he is confirming what everyone in this thread has already said. Unfortunately. Fr Z doesn't clarify if "drying" is the same thing as "purifying". [/quote] I'm not familiar with this whole thread actually. Just read bits and pieces. I don't want to get involved. Whatever Fr Z said. And I'll ipso facto second whatever Aloysius has to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 waiting for the new translation of the GIRM and praying it is clarified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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