Don John of Austria Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) [quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1306446723' post='2246365'] Yeah for simply being born female. I am glad that the Church has decided in its infinite wisdom to allow women to serve as altar servers, lectors, and eucharistic ministers. [/quote] Funny, I'd like to see women off of the altar all together, but don't feel singled out, I'd like to see everyone not under orders off the altar, I would like to see a restoration of the minor orders. I am not real thrilled about Lay Eucharistic Ministers either, though I, once upon a time, was one. At that time I was studying to be a priest, and the EM role seemed a good step in that direction, for me it essentially replaced the minor orders in that sense. I am obediant to the Church, and accept the suppression, but I wish it would be undone. I think that, in fact, the supression of the minor orders has seriously damaged the recruitment of Priest. Edited May 26, 2011 by Don John of Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1306452199' post='2246391'] Funny, I'd like to see women off of the altar all together, but don't feel singled out, I'd like to see everyone not under orders off the altar[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I would also like to see a return of the minor orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1306441845' post='2246328'] Eucharistic Adoration is a devotion, not a ministry. Bottom line. The Sacred Host doesn't minister to people. It is an inanimate object. To minister, assumes that one must actively perform some sort of ministry. The Sacred Host cannot do that. One can build a closer relationship to God through a devotion to the Eucharist in Adoration, but one isn't ministered to by the Eucharist. Come on jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff), you know this....[/quote] It is a devotion. It is also a means for Christ to minister to those devoted to him. I can tell stories when you have used it as a ministerial tool to minister to a friend in need. (I won't but you know what I'm talking about) We adore because Christ is fully present! To suggest that ministry doesn't or can't occur is in error. Your statement limits what Christ, fully present, can do. [quote] Are you saying that the Novus Ordo is imperfect? I think that you are, you should be careful, you'll get your Church Scholar tag taken away for that. [/quote] I'm saying that mass can be imperfect. And the reason that your tag was taken away was not because you were in error. Yours was taken away because you lectured when you were supposed to teach. You could have explained your position (which I was defending btw) in a way that everyone could understand and you chose not to. You lost your tag because you had a moment where you could have taught people something and you chose to do something different. You're smarter than most on Theology Camster. But if you don't want to help people learn, what's the point? I wouldn't choose to be publicly critical of you. You opened that door [quote] The Eucharist cannot be separated from Mass any more than the Mass can be separated from the Eucharist. They are dependent upon one another. The Eucharist can exist outside the Mass, but that is not what is at question here. No, while we are on Earth, we will never have a time, going forward, when there is no liturgy. But that is taking what I said out of context. I was making an allegorical statement that if the seminaries dry up, then we would lose the ability to have the Eucharist. You do know what allegory is don't you? It is figurative treatment of one subject under the guise of another. Which is what I did. Please don't assume it was any different. Don't forget, I know your game as well as you do, we developed it together, in order to troll this site 7 years ago. [/quote] You were not making an allegorical statement and if you believe you were, then you don't understand what an allegory is. You're moderately correct in your definition. But for it to fit your description, you need a metaphor and there is none present. You used exaggeration to try to make a point. And it was an exaggeration that cannot possibly come true. So you dear camster were using hyperbole. An allegory is used to teach. Hyperbole is used to incite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Ideally, I don't think females should serve at the altar. And when possible, restoration of male-only servers should be sought. But that needs to be decided 'pastorally' (I hate using that word, but it's true). For example... my home parish once upon a time had female altar servers. As Father worked with the parish, he gained their trust and taught them in an orthodox manner. He brought us Perpetual Adoration. And then, once the parish was in a good place, he took away the female servers. On the other hand, the parish where I work... Hell would freeze over if we tried to take away female altar servers. Now perhaps some of you would say 'good riddance' if we made the switch and lost half our parish... But I can see what a feeble place people are at already, as it is. I'm not going to bring in the meat and potatoes when they're still on a diet of milk. We've made progress and there's more to be made. They're learning to trust me and I'm therefore able to stretch them and call them to deeper conversion, little by little. Is it sad that many people would leave because of that? Absolutely. But the fact is that they would... and at the same time, they are willing for continued conversion. So I'll work toward it slowly. Fact of the matter is that the Church allows it, just as she allows communion in the hand. Both, I don't think, are the ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1306455917' post='2246416'] It is a devotion. It is also a means for Christ to minister to those devoted to him. I can tell stories when you have used it as a ministerial tool to minister to a friend in need. (I won't but you know what I'm talking about) We adore because Christ is fully present! To suggest that ministry doesn't or can't occur is in error. Your statement limits what Christ, fully present, can do. I'm saying that mass can be imperfect. And the reason that your tag was taken away was not because you were in error. Yours was taken away because you lectured when you were supposed to teach. You could have explained your position (which I was defending btw) in a way that everyone could understand and you chose not to. You lost your tag because you had a moment where you could have taught people something and you chose to do something different. You're smarter than most on Theology Camster. But if you don't want to help people learn, what's the point? I wouldn't choose to be publicly critical of you. You opened that door You were not making an allegorical statement and if you believe you were, then you don't understand what an allegory is. You're moderately correct in your definition. But for it to fit your description, you need a metaphor and there is none present. You used exaggeration to try to make a point. And it was an exaggeration that cannot possibly come true. So you dear camster were using hyperbole. An allegory is used to teach. Hyperbole is used to incite. [/quote] Ummm...jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)...look at what you are saying....[b]YOU[/b], yes [b]YOU[/b] are the one who ministered, not the Eucharist. [b]YOU[/b] used it as a tool. [b]YOU[/b] might minister, but "miinstry" doesn't occur, because the Blessed Sacrament in present, "ministry" occurs because someone is there to minister to another. Devotion occurs because one is there to have the devotion. But the Blessed Sacrament doesn't minister to said person... As for my tag...it isn't up to you to determine why my "tag" was taken away. My tag was taken away because I embraced Tradition. That was already established. I've been "lecturing" since the day I got here, as have you...I am just not "lecturing" in the way dUSt wants me too...so I am phishy. And that is disingenuous. As for hyperbole v. allegory, it was both. The hyperbole aspect was meant to be humorous, but the allegory was aboslutely warranted. Surely you can understand that. You cannot say the Mass can be imperfect. That is a clear misstep and one that cost me my tag. It is the same as saying it is deficient. dUSt, I expect fair treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1306420768' post='2246192'] That explains so much. [/quote] Did you not know I'm a girl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 [quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1306461694' post='2246455'] Did you not know I'm a girl? [/quote] It's so hard to tell elves apart...so is gray and blue...depending on what form of Sindarin you're espousing... I digress.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Yeah, I've run into much gender confusion online because of my ambiguous screenname (and that is a picture of Maedhros, who is male), but I've had 'female' checked off in my profile for the entire time I've been here (over 2 years) and have posted pictures of myself on the forums and discussed things that make it abundantly clear I'm a girl. So, confusion doesn't surprise me, but I would've thought Winchester knew me better than that by now. Kudos for knowing the Sindarin, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1306461097' post='2246450'] My tag was taken away because I embraced Tradition. ... You cannot say the Mass can be imperfect. That is a clear misstep and one that cost me my tag. It is the same as saying it is deficient. dUSt, I expect fair treatment. [/quote] You just gave two reasons why your tag was removed. Neither is correct. You can have your tag back if you want. Just come back to the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1306462931' post='2246467'] Yeah, I've run into much gender confusion online because of my ambiguous screenname (and that is a picture of Maedhros, who is male), but I've had 'female' checked off in my profile for the entire time I've been here (over 2 years) and have posted pictures of myself on the forums and discussed things that make it abundantly clear I'm a girl. So, confusion doesn't surprise me, but I would've thought Winchester knew me better than that by now. Kudos for knowing the Sindarin, though! [/quote] I'm a complete Tolkien wonk. I learned the elvish languages years ago...I am better with Quenya, but I can get through Sindarin ok...I literally taught myself the language. Ask jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff). He knows...it is also chronicled here in the archives someplace.... Edited May 27, 2011 by Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1306463590' post='2246473'] You just gave two reasons why your tag was removed. Neither is correct. You can have your tag back if you want. Just come back to the Church. [/quote] I never left. It is your error to assume that I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1306463974' post='2246478'] I'm a complete Tolkien wonk. I learned the elvish languages years ago...I am better with Quenya, but I can get through Sindarin ok...I literally taught myself the language. Ask jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff). He knows...it is also chronicled here in the archives someplace.... [/quote] Yay for Tolkien! I'm a complete geek about his works . Not so great at the languages, actually, though I tend to be able to follow a discussion of them. I can write in Tengwar and Cirth, which is of course much easier . And I bake lembas; another clear indication that I am female. [img]http://209.85.12.232/13948/136/emo/lembas-WEB.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 [quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1306464615' post='2246482'] Yay for Tolkien! I'm a complete geek about his works . Not so great at the languages, actually, though I tend to be able to follow a discussion of them. I can write in Tengwar and Cirth, which is of course much easier . And I bake lembas; another clear indication that I am female. [img]http://209.85.12.232/13948/136/emo/lembas-WEB.gif[/img] [/quote] I'm re-reading the Simarillion for the 5th time right now...I love that book. I'm in the middle of chapter 11, which deals with the sun and the moon. I always gravitate toward that book when I have a lull in my reading.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1306465044' post='2246487'] I'm re-reading the Simarillion for the 5th time right now...I love that book. I'm in the middle of chapter 11, which deals with the sun and the moon. I always gravitate toward that book when I have a lull in my reading.... [/quote] You have lulls in your reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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