Socrates Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 The Church has long recognized the right of people to self-defense, and defense of their families. The vast majority of gun-owners in the USA are law-abiding citizens who have never murdered anyone with their weapons. For most of law-abiding citizens, owning a gun gives them their best chance at defense against a violent attacker. Guns have in fact saved many lives. (For those who claim protecting lives is the job of police, often by the time the cops show up, it is too late.) Banning guns would merely deprive law-abiding citizens of the means to legitimate self-defense. Most gun violence is from violent criminals who have contempt for the law, and will find ways to obtain weapons illegally. (If you think the government declaring something illegal will successfully keep it out of the hands of criminals, just look at the current "war on drugs." Outlawing these weapons will simply result in a thriving black market for them, with attendant criminal violence.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1306971952' post='2248968'] This is the best answer because, as usual, this thread has been dominated by the hysterical, fear-mongering, saber-rattling nonsense we typically hear from conservatives on this issue. The fact of the matter is that it ought to be intuitive: there is a gigantic difference between owning a handgun, and amassing a stockpile of semi-automatic rifles and other Modern Warfare, Call of Duty-type guns. There's got to be a middle ground, where sensible people can agree that there is a class of weapons that really ought not to be available for public consumption. Armor-piercing bullets, grenades...there's no need for any of that sort of military-grade weaponry if your goal--in your Lockean fantasy world-- is to defend your family. A simple handgun will probably do the trick against most home-invaders. So please--spare me the "they want our guns" bologna. There's no gun on the market today that will help you overthrow the "tyrannical/socialist/authoritarian/autocratic/Muslim" government we have. [/quote] Ooooh, those awful conservatives! The Second Amendment (which mentions the need for a militia of armed citizens), was made with military-grade arms in mind - weapons which could be used to dispel a military attack by foreign or domestic tyrants. The issue at stake was not squirrel hunting. No doubt you would dismiss the founding fathers of our country themselves as hysterical fear-mongering lunatics. James Madison: Americans have "the advantage of being armed" -- unlike the citizens of other countries where "the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." Patrick Henry: "The great objective is that every man be armed. . . . Everyone who is able may have a gun." George Mason: "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." Samuel Adams: "The Constitution shall never be construed . . . to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." Alexander Hamilton: "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." Richard Henry Lee: "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." "I hope, therefore, a bill of rights will be formed to guard the people against the Federal government as they are already guarded against their State governments, in most instances." Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1788. ME 7:98 "I learn with great concern that [one] portion of our frontier so interesting, so important, and so exposed, should be so entirely unprovided with common fire-arms. I did not suppose any part of the United States so destitute of what is considered as among the first necessaries of a farm house." Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Jacob J. Brown (1808) "A people armed and free forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition and is a bulwark for the nation against foreign invasion and domestic oppression." James Madison (1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President "[Tyranny cannot be safe] without a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace." James Madison, In his autobiography "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." John Adams (1735-1826) Founding Father, 2nd US President A Defense of the Constitution of Government of the United States of America, 1788 "Are we at least brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in our possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" Patrick Henry, 3 Elliot Debates 168-169. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1306977876' post='2249017'] Ooooh, those awful conservatives! The Second Amendment (which mentions the need for a militia of armed citizens), was made with military-grade arms in mind - weapons which could be used to dispel a military attack by foreign or domestic tyrants. The issue at stake was not squirrel hunting. No doubt you would dismiss the founding fathers of our country themselves as hysterical fear-mongering lunatics. James Madison: Americans have "the advantage of being armed" -- unlike the citizens of other countries where "the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." Patrick Henry: "The great objective is that every man be armed. . . . Everyone who is able may have a gun." George Mason: "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them." Samuel Adams: "The Constitution shall never be construed . . . to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." Alexander Hamilton: "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." Richard Henry Lee: "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." "I hope, therefore, a bill of rights will be formed to guard the people against the Federal government as they are already guarded against their State governments, in most instances." Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1788. ME 7:98 "I learn with great concern that [one] portion of our frontier so interesting, so important, and so exposed, should be so entirely unprovided with common fire-arms. I did not suppose any part of the United States so destitute of what is considered as among the first necessaries of a farm house." Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Jacob J. Brown (1808) "A people armed and free forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition and is a bulwark for the nation against foreign invasion and domestic oppression." James Madison (1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President "[Tyranny cannot be safe] without a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace." James Madison, In his autobiography "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." John Adams (1735-1826) Founding Father, 2nd US President A Defense of the Constitution of Government of the United States of America, 1788 "Are we at least brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in our possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" Patrick Henry, 3 Elliot Debates 168-169. [/quote] What a bunch of Tea Party radicals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1306979699' post='2249025'] What a bunch of Tea Party radicals! [/quote] They're such extremists they probably didn't even support Medicaid and the Department of Education. May they burn forever for their depraved and unenlightened opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1306979699' post='2249025'] What a bunch of Tea Party radicals! [/quote] Well they did start the original Tea Party! They should've shut up with the divisive fear-mongering rhetoric, and let King George take care of all their problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_x-JfNQ__Y[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBHFrqVKnYY[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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