Don John of Austria Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1306903577' post='2248554'] strawman We're talking about Archbishop Migliore and I don't think his statement is personal nor is it inconsistent with Church teaching [/quote] Not a strawman at all, you made a general statement [quote]"The flaw in it is that while it is separate, it will never be inconsistent with what the Vatican (Church) teaches or believes. His statement is representative of what the Holy Father wants him to say and is consistent with Church teachings."[/quote] I asked you to clarify that statement, NOW you say that you were speaking only of this particular statement. Then No I do not belive it is costistant with Church teachings. As such I am forced to believe it is not intended to be a Church teaching, and therefore am force to conclude that it is the personal statement of a diplomat representing a King. Edited for clarification: The Church has taught consistantly that the indivdual has the right to self defense, and that the Family, as a society which precedes the State, have the right to self defense and defence of the family in general. Restricting small arms intrudes on this right, therefore it cannot be Church teaching. Edited June 1, 2011 by Don John of Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1306904594' post='2248569'] Not a strawman at all, you made a general statement I asked you to clarify that statement, NOW you say that you were speaking only of this particular statement. Then No I do not belive it is costistant with Church teachings. As such I am forced to believe it is not intended to be a Church teaching, and therefore am force to conclude that it is the personal statement of a diplomat representing a King. [/quote] Nope not "Now" always. I've only been talking about the Archbishop and his role with the UN. Show me where I've generalized beyond that and I'll be happy to recant. And again I'm not stating that he is stating Church teaching. I'm stating that what he's saying is completely consistent with what the Church teaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1306903161' post='2248548'] As usual, KFC you've added exactly zero to the thread. Thanks for trolling* *This will most certainly be taken by KFC as a slander to all who enjoy the Mass in the Extraordinary Form. But that is not true. It's just a reflection on KFC [/quote] But you're the King of Trolls Jaim[i]e, [/i]and you've trolled trough out the thread so your statement is a bit hypocritical. Anyway you ever going to get to the real point? Either what Archbishop Celestino Migliore stated was binding Church Teaching or it wasn't binding Church teaching. It may not conflict but was it binding Church Teaching? If it's not binding I don't see the point in your discussion other than of course to mock and insult others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1306904935' post='2248575'] Nope not "Now" always. I've only been talking about the Archbishop and his role with the UN. Show me where I've generalized beyond that and I'll be happy to recant. And again I'm not stating that he is stating Church teaching. I'm stating that what he's saying is completely consistent with what the Church teaches. [/quote] Your statment sounded like a general statement about those appointed by the pope in the Role of Papal Representive to me, as I said, if you only ment it regarding this statement then so be it. I have already explained my position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1306905240' post='2248579'] But you're the King of Trolls Jaim[i]e, [/i]and you've trolled trough out the thread so your statement is a bit hypocritical. Anyway you ever going to get to the real point? Either what Archbishop Celestino Migliore stated was binding Church Teaching or it wasn't binding Church teaching. It may not conflict but was it binding Church Teaching? If it's not binding I don't see the point in your discussion other than of course to mock and insult others. [/quote] You do have a hard time comprehending stuff KFC. I'm arguing against your buddy's position that is apparently. Archbishop Migliore was speaking on his own and not for the Vatican. [quote]If an opinion expressed by a Vatican official lies outside his competency then it may be right or wrong, but that person, even if he is a bishop, enjoys no special teaching authority or protection from error with regards to those aspects outside his competency. For a more mundane example of what I'm talking about, if Cardinal Arinze writes out his personal favourite recipe for cake, I am perfectly free to say that he is mistaken in the ideal amount of flour, because he is not a chef, and he is probably not an authority on the issue of cake baking. [/quote] See that? He is comparing recipes to statements made by the Archbishop to the UN. I am also arguing that in his role, Archbishop Migliore has said nothing that is inconsistent with Church teaching. Caught up now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1306905721' post='2248588'] See that? He is comparing recipes to statements made by the Archbishop to the UN. [/quote] Are you unfamiliar with analogies, Jim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 You can state something that is perfectly in line with Church teaching without speaking on behalf of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1306906028' post='2248595'] You can state something that is perfectly in line with Church teaching without speaking on behalf of the Church. [/quote] Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1306906028' post='2248595'] You can state something that is perfectly in line with Church teaching without speaking on behalf of the Church. [/quote] Also, of course, two mutually contradictory statements can both be perfectly in line with Church teaching, if one of the statements contains flawed reasoning or unsound arguments that are found outside of Church teaching. The portions of the statement which pertain to Church teaching may be perfectly correct in both scenarios, but other 'secular' portions may be in opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1306906201' post='2248597'] Also, of course, two mutually contradictory statements can both be perfectly in line with Church teaching, if one of the statements contains flawed reasoning or unsound arguments that are found outside of Church teaching. The portions of the statement which pertain to Church teaching may be perfectly correct in both scenarios, but other 'secular' portions may be in opposition. [/quote] also agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1306906266' post='2248599'] also agreed. [/quote] I like you, even though you're a distributist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 So Jamie did we put to bed your consequentialist arguement about numbers of deaths? Jamie, can you explain why YOU think gun control is a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1306906388' post='2248600'] I like you, even though you're a distributist. [/quote] I like you too, even though your not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1306905721' post='2248588'] You do have a hard time comprehending stuff KFC. I'm arguing against your buddy's position that is apparently. Archbishop Migliore was speaking on his own and not for the Vatican. See that? He is comparing recipes to statements made by the Archbishop to the UN. I am also arguing that in his role, Archbishop Migliore has said nothing that is inconsistent with Church teaching. Caught up now? [/quote] Nice, but I actually I asked what I did because you have repeatedly stated that what Archbishop Migliore stated is completely consistent with what the Church teaches. That statement seems to be stating more than just simply that his statements are not inconsistent with Church teaching. But rather that you believe what Archbishop Migliore stated is Church Teaching, being that you've stated that it is [b]completely consistent[/b] with Church teaching. So it's either binding or it isn't. Edited June 1, 2011 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1306905240' post='2248579'] But you're the King of Trolls Jaim[i]e, [/i] [/quote] [i]ahem[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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