KnightofChrist Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1306901452' post='2248524'] I get it. It's hard to play with the big boys. Feel free to insert some wacky picture with misspelled words on it if it will make you feel better. [/quote] Your well trained ability to mock and speak down to others, and puff yourself up doesn't make you a big boy jaim[i]e[/i]. Sorry buddy. Edited June 1, 2011 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1306901988' post='2248530'] What do you hope to accomplish by continually mocking me? Does it make you feel like a real adult? Are the adults around you so unable to put up with you that instead you need to make fun of people half your age in order to feel that you have some sort of power? I pity you. You have to live with yourself forever. If I chose, I'd never have to hear a single thing from you again. [/quote] Look if you don't want to engage in dialogue, then yes I'm going to mock you. You get frustrated because you have a pretty good idea where I'm leading you and you can't answer on your own. BTW you've been around here long enough to know I'm an equal opportunity mocker. I don't care if you're half my age. But if you feel intimidated, go back to dialoging with me. It's a pretty easy question Does the leader of the Vatican, (political state) differ from the leader of the Vatican (Church)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1306902041' post='2248531'] Your well trained ability to mock and speak down to others, and puff yourself up doesn't make you a big boy jaim[i]e[/i]. Sorry buddy. [/quote] Are you back again? I will never believe any of your posts again KFC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1306902311' post='2248535'] Are you back again? I will never believe any of your posts again KFC! [/quote] *yawn* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1306901348' post='2248521'] I disagree. It is the Magisterial Authority that appoints the position. The person in that position speaks on behalf of the Magisterial Authority. [/quote] you may disagree all you wan't but you are not correct, not to mention very inconsistant from year to year. The Temprotial authority of the pope, and that is role the papal nunciio has at the UN, a secular not a religious one, is seperate and distinct from his Religious authority. He is both A King and the Vicar of Christ, those offices are different, as the UN rejects Christ and everything he commands and the Popes representitive to them is not on a mission of Conversion one can only conclude that his role is as a representive of a King not of the Vicar of Christ. Further, he made no binding statement, this was not an order, it wa a statement of opinion, even the popes opinion may be wrong. His representitive certianly can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1306902230' post='2248533'] Look if you don't want to engage in dialogue, then yes I'm going to mock you. You get frustrated because you have a pretty good idea where I'm leading you and you can't answer on your own. BTW you've been around here long enough to know I'm an equal opportunity mocker. I don't care if you're half my age. But if you feel intimidated, go back to dialoging with me. It's a pretty easy question Does the leader of the Vatican, (political state) differ from the leader of the Vatican (Church)? [/quote] Why do you get to ask the questions? Does every word that comes from the mouth of a bishop require the assent of the faithful? Under what conditions does it require assent? Under what does it not? Pretty rich hearing you say that you don't care that I'm half your age. You bring up my age more often than any other participants on this forum combined, and I notice that you often flaunt your own supposed experience pretty regularly. If you can't treat me with a shred of respect or dignity, then all I have to say is that you ought to be ashamed of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1306902485' post='2248537'] you may disagree all you wan't but you are not correct, not to mention very inconsistant from year to year. The Temprotial authority of the pope, and that is role the papal nunciio has at the UN, a secular not a religious one, is seperate and distinct from his Religious authority. He is both A King and the Vicar of Christ, those offices are different, as the UN rejects Christ and everything he commands and the Popes representitive to them is not on a mission of Conversion one can only conclude that his role is as a representive of a King not of the Vicar of Christ. Further, he made no binding statement, this was not an order, it wa a statement of opinion, even the popes opinion may be wrong. His representitive certianly can be. [/quote] Good thing you weren't here last September. Back then you lost your tag if you suggested that the pope can err in his personal opinion. Edit for typo. Edited June 1, 2011 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1306902485' post='2248537'] you may disagree all you wan't but you are not correct, not to mention very inconsistant from year to year. The Temprotial authority of the pope, and that is role the papal nunciio has at the UN, a secular not a religious one, is seperate and distinct from his Religious authority. He is both A King and the Vicar of Christ, those offices are different, as the UN rejects Christ and everything he commands and the Popes representitive to them is not on a mission of Conversion one can only conclude that his role is as a representive of a King not of the Vicar of Christ. Further, he made no binding statement, this was not an order, it wa a statement of opinion, even the popes opinion may be wrong. His representitive certianly can be. [/quote] I agree with a good portion of that. The flaw in it is that while it is separate, it will never be inconsistent with what the Vatican (Church) teaches or believes. His statement is representative of what the Holy Father wants him to say and is consistent with Church teachings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1306902642' post='2248541'] Why do you get to ask the questions? Does every word that comes from the mouth of a bishop require the assent of the faithful? Under what conditions does it require assent? Under what does it not? Pretty rich hearing you say that you don't care that I'm half your age. You bring up my age more often than any other participants on this forum combined, and I notice that you often flaunt your own supposed experience pretty regularly. If you can't treat me with a shred of respect or dignity, then all I have to say is that you ought to be ashamed of yourself. [/quote] nope you've given a great example of when we can disagree with the personal opinion of Cardinal Arinze. And this will be the second time I agreed with you. But we're not talking cookie recipes. We are talking about a Vatican official speaking in the role that he was appointed to by the Holy Father. He's on duty when he's speaking about gun control. He's not at a cocktail party discussing recipes. Is it binding? Maybe, maybe not. My point is that if you think he would ever say something in his role that is inconsistent with Church teaching, you'd be wrong. The rest of it was too boring to respond to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1306902482' post='2248536'] *yawn* [/quote] As usual, KFC you've added exactly zero to the thread. Thanks for trolling* *This will most certainly be taken by KFC as a slander to all who enjoy the Mass in the Extraordinary Form. But that is not true. It's just a reflection on KFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1306902981' post='2248547'] nope you've given a great example of when we can disagree with the personal opinion of Cardinal Arinze. And this will be the second time I agreed with you. But we're not talking cookie recipes. We are talking about a Vatican official speaking in the role that he was appointed to by the Holy Father. He's on duty when he's speaking about gun control. He's not at a cocktail party discussing recipes. Is it binding? Maybe, maybe not. My point is that if you think he would ever say something in his role that is inconsistent with Church teaching, you'd be wrong. The rest of it was too boring to respond to [/quote] So when Innocent III's papal legate in his role as papal legate said " Kill them allGod knows which ones are his", this was completly consistant with Church Teaching, becuase it was his role as the Popes representative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1306902981' post='2248547'] nope you've given a great example of when we can disagree with the personal opinion of Cardinal Arinze. And this will be the second time I agreed with you. But we're not talking cookie recipes. We are talking about a Vatican official speaking in the role that he was appointed to by the Holy Father. He's on duty when he's speaking about gun control. He's not at a cocktail party discussing recipes. Is it binding? Maybe, maybe not. My point is that if you think he would ever say something in his role that is inconsistent with Church teaching, you'd be wrong. The rest of it was too boring to respond to [/quote] Gun control is a very broad topic, and includes aspects with which whoever he was (I forgot his name) is likely not particularly qualified. It also includes many aspects that he probably is eminently qualified to discuss, and I'm sure he applies the principles with which he is familiar accurately, but if he has faulty reasoning or unsound arguments somewhere along the way that are not related to his competency in faith and morals, then his conclusions may very well be faulty or unsound themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1306903264' post='2248550'] Gun control is a very broad topic, and includes aspects with which whoever he was (I forgot his name) is likely not particularly qualified. It also includes many aspects that he probably is eminently qualified to discuss, and I'm sure he applies the principles with which he is familiar accurately, but if he has faulty reasoning or unsound arguments somewhere along the way that are not related to his competency in faith and morals, then his conclusions may very well be faulty or unsound themselves. [/quote] So you believe that he's speaking independently in his official role and not voicing the words of the Vatican? Do you think his statements are in any way inconsistent with Church teachings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1306903342' post='2248551'] So you believe that he's speaking independently in his official role and not voicing the words of the Vatican? Do you think his statements are in any way inconsistent with Church teachings [/quote] I'm sure that when he speaks about Church teachings he is very consistent with the same teachings. However his application of those teachings may very well be flawed if he is working from faulty premises or unsound reasoning on matters not directly related to Church teaching, for example criminal psychology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1306903171' post='2248549'] So when Innocent III's papal legate in his role as papal legate said " Kill them allGod knows which ones are his", this was completly consistant with Church Teaching, becuase it was his role as the Popes representative? [/quote] strawman We're talking about Archbishop Migliore and I don't think his statement is personal nor is it inconsistent with Church teaching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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