bernadette d Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Does anyone else feel a little uneasy about details of practices in specific Orders being aired on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Be more specific.... and why? What is there to hide? I don't really understand the question perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='bernadette d' timestamp='1306330189' post='2245768'] Does anyone else feel a little uneasy about details of practices in specific Orders being aired on here? [/quote] I feel compelled to answer, as I am particularly "guilty" of this. I understand your concern; religious life is [i]supposed[/i] to have that sense of "sacred mystery" surrounding it. If all the "mystery" is divulged, certainly it seems it would do a disservice to the life, and "cheapen" it, in a sense! Perhaps I am guilty of divulging [i]too[/i] much; if I have done any disservice to religious life, it was certainly not intentional, and I would be grievously sorry for that. My intentions were pure, and I am a big "fan" of this beautiful vocation, and hope to encourage my own children if God so calls them! Any explanation of the details and practices of the Order of which I was a member has been done only to encourage those who feel they may have a religious vocation to that Order. Knowing more about a community has always served to encourage me in the life. From experience, as well, I know that oftentimes a discerner is not aware of the demands or practices of the life, and so the shock of what "really goes on" has been enough to send her out the door again, which is truly sad, because she may have had an authentic vocation. Now, is it her prerogative to discover those things on her own? Perhaps, but I've always thought it has done good for people to know these things (at least in part) and be at least a [i]little[/i] prepared for them, because you can never be fully prepared, and I don't think knowing the details and practices necessarily strips it of all its mystery; after all, [i]knowing it[/i] and [i]living it[/i] are two very different things! However, if I have made anyone uneasy or have given too much information in public, please forgive me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1306331433' post='2245778'] I feel compelled to answer, as I am particularly "guilty" of this. I understand your concern; religious life is [i]supposed[/i] to have that sense of "sacred mystery" surrounding it. If all the "mystery" is divulged, certainly it seems it would do a disservice to the life, and "cheapen" it, in a sense! Perhaps I am guilty of divulging [i]too[/i] much; if I have done any disservice to religious life, it was certainly not intentional, and I would be grievously sorry for that. My intentions were pure, and I am a big "fan" of this beautiful vocation, and hope to encourage my own children if God so calls them! Any explanation of the details and practices of the Order of which I was a member has been done only to encourage those who feel they may have a religious vocation to that Order. Knowing more about a community has always served to encourage me in the life. From experience, as well, I know that oftentimes a discerner is not aware of the demands or practices of the life, and so the shock of what "really goes on" has been enough to send her out the door again, which is truly sad, because she may have had an authentic vocation. Now, is it her prerogative to discover those things on her own? Perhaps, but I've always thought it has done good for people to know these things (at least in part) and be at least a [i]little[/i] prepared for them, because you can never be fully prepared, and I don't think knowing the details and practices necessarily strips it of all its mystery; after all, [i]knowing it[/i] and [i]living it[/i] are two very different things! However, if I have made anyone uneasy or have given too much information in public, please forgive me! [/quote] I'm still not sure I understand what the problem is here, but perhaps it has something to do with motivation. As you point out, if a person is describing details of religious life in order to help others, then I don't see a problem with it. But that's why I asked for clarification of the question. When a couple are about to get married - they often go through a pre-marriage education course together to help them face issues that they might never have considered. They realize that there are things that they totally disagree about, whether how to raise children or how to handle money or a host of other things. I used to do data entry for the evaluation forms following these courses, and in almost all cases, the couple felt the course had opened their eyes to things they had never considered, and had brought them closer together as a coupl. They usually felt better prepared to enter into the marriage state. I think that discussing certain aspects of religious life can be a help to others, even if it points out things that they had never considered before. And as there are many different types of communities, it seems to make sense that a person had as much information as possible about their possible future life. As you point out here though, living the life is much different than reading about it - but I don't think I have ever regretted finding out as much as I could about a community before discerning with them. But I am open to valid concerns about this point....??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernadette d Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 I do not imagine for one second that there is "anything to hide" I merely think that what goes on in any convent (or family for that matter) is personal to them. I am not "getting at" anyone in particular as I believe you all to be genuine and sincere people.I think perhaps that "Cherie Madame" imagines I know more than I do......I haven't actually read anything of yours! God Bless you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='bernadette d' timestamp='1306332275' post='2245789'] I do not imagine for one second that there is "anything to hide" I merely think that what goes on in any convent (or family for that matter) is personal to them. I am not "getting at" anyone in particular as I believe you all to be genuine and sincere people.I think perhaps that "Cherie Madame" imagines I know more than I do......I haven't actually read anything of yours! God Bless you all. [/quote] Well, your concern is certainly valid if we are talking about voyeuristic gossip, but I haven't seen anything like that on phatmass, where there are sincere discerners, especially in Vocation Station! Most 'families' appear quite happy to share good news about their significant events, hence the success of social networking sites online. Even religious communities post pictures and stories about news and events. No one wants their 'diry linen' aired in public however, so it is up to us posters to ensure that our comments are always made with the intention to provide information, not scandal, and always made with charity. If we do that, I think that it is quite acceptable to disclose information that could be relevant to someone trying to discern religious life. But that's just my opinion, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernadette d Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 I too believe in freedom of information, and I know that what is written on here is done with the intention of being of help. What "sparked me off" was the "toilet arrangements" of communities, as I could see no point in publicising that. I have read similar things in the past which I cannot bring any to mind just now. Never have I read anything that I imagined was written in anything other than charity, and certainly nothing scandalous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='bernadette d' timestamp='1306335590' post='2245797'] I too believe in freedom of information, and I know that what is written on here is done with the intention of being of help. What "sparked me off" was the "toilet arrangements" of communities, as I could see no point in publicising that. I have read similar things in the past which I cannot bring any to mind just now. Never have I read anything that I imagined was written in anything other than charity, and certainly nothing scandalous! [/quote] Well, now, that makes more sense! I see you are from the UK so perhaps you are not as 'compulsively self-disclosing' as I am, being a mixture of cultures, but I can certainly see that this kind of discussion would be considered a little unnecessary to many people, and since I am the culprit I will freely admit mea culpa on this one. It was simply that I found it fascinating, all the differences between the Carmels, especially in this area, and I guess I never considered that some people might find it offensive. I do apologize. I think I got started on it because someone asked about what was worn at night and that led to someone talking about wearing a dressing gown and I was thinking how a dressing gown wasn't needed since we didn't leave the cells at night, and then I remembered that yes, in some communities we did... and well, my uncouth ways led me down the garden path. I live a VERY basic life in the bush and the 'call of nature' seems so natural to me... but what can I say? Sorry. I concede the point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernadette d Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1306336196' post='2245798'] Well, now, that makes more sense! I see you are from the UK so perhaps you are not as 'compulsively self-disclosing' as I am, being a mixture of cultures, but I can certainly see that this kind of discussion would be considered a little unnecessary to many people, and since I am the culprit I will freely admit mea culpa on this one. It was simply that I found it fascinating, all the differences between the Carmels, especially in this area, and I guess I never considered that some people might find it offensive. I do apologize. I think I got started on it because someone asked about what was worn at night and that led to someone talking about wearing a dressing gown and I was thinking how a dressing gown wasn't needed since we didn't leave the cells at night, and then I remembered that yes, in some communities we did... and well, my uncouth ways led me down the garden path. I live a VERY basic life in the bush and the 'call of nature' seems so natural to me... but what can I say? Sorry. I concede the point! [/quote] What a lovely reply! No, I didn't find it "offensive" just banal. Clever of you to detect UK! With my best wishes to you personally, hope all is going well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I know there are a few subjects that are usually kept off the public radar when it comes to sharing about communities. If DS were still posting (come baaaaaack!!), she could probably explain about the Dominican... code?... I'm not sure what it's called. But there are some things about the Dominican way of life that are meant to be kept secret so that the individual can be initiated by the community and really experience it for the first time as part of the community, without preconceived notions. That is, originally, what the Sacraments of Initiation were like. There was [i]not[/i] a huge effort on catechesis [i]before[/i] receiving the sacraments. Rather, one went through the initiation, received the 'sacred mysteries' and then, during a time of mystagogia, unpacked the mysteries. There are some things that are simply meant to be [i]experienced[/i] so as to know, rather to know and then experience. What are these things that ought to be more off-limits on a public venue? To be completely honest, I don't know. I've never been in religious life. I think it's really up to the discretion and prudence of those who have spent time in the various communities to know what should or should not be shared. As for myself, I generally take the rule that if it was shared with me in private (private message, etc), then I don't generally disclose that publicly either. And there are a few things about my future community that I've learned privately through someone who spent time with them. Curiosity is a good thing. Wanting to learn more is normal. But we should always be aware of the cultural influence on our desires to know more as well... our society has taught us to be [i]absolutely certain[/i] about something before committing; to know [i]everything[/i] we possibly can before making a decision. While it's true that we ought to have moral certitude before entering, and that it's good to have an idea of what you're getting into... We musn't take either of these points too far. There is no such thing as absolute certainty in religious life, at least not until final vows. And you're just not going to know everything... nor should that be a priority. Part of being a religious is dying to your own will. (I think somebody already mentioned this) The smaller workings of an order ought not to bother us too much- whatever it is, we will accept it in good faith, even if it's against our preferences or our desires. Bigger things most certainly may cause difficulties in our discernment... but smaller things simply offer us an opportunity to be detached from our own desires. Remember... we're not looking for the place that fits us and our desires and our preferences to a tee. We're looking for a place that can work to perfect us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faithcecelia Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 When I was initially discerning, my numver one question was 'can I use Tampax'! In most cases there was someone I could ask that easily, but not all. This time round I am far less bothered - I will accept what is available - but I think things like that, and what you wear to bed, how often you bathe and how often are habits washed are actually valid to discuss - they were certainly the biggest shocks to the system to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1306339697' post='2245805'] When I was initially discerning, my numver one question was 'can I use Tampax'! In most cases there was someone I could ask that easily, but not all. This time round I am far less bothered - I will accept what is available - but I think things like that, and what you wear to bed, how often you bathe and how often are habits washed are actually valid to discuss - they were certainly the biggest shocks to the system to me. [/quote] I haven't been bothered by anything I've read so far. In part that's because I tend to think that the more an aspirant knows about her future community, the better. Religious life IS a mystery, and I think knowing some of the everyday details (whatever is important to a specific person) could be very helpful in reducing some of the understanable nervousness about religious life, and/or help an aspirant find a community where she will genuinely enjoy living and isn't going to reduce the mystery. I also don't feel uncomfortable because virtually all the time, when "day to day" information is shared here on the Web site by a former member of a community, the woman doesn't identify the community, but just says, "In the community I belonged to (or that she visited), they did X." I think some small details can actually help give ideas of what the community is like. For example, the answer to the question about using tampons is probably not a "dealbreaker" for most aspirants, but if the reason the community does not use tampons is because of holding very traditional views about tampons, then the community may hold very traditional views on other issues, too, and there might be other questions an asprant might have, if this gives her concern. I think that the increasingly more common practice of having a "live in", a time where a serious aspirant lives with a community and shares their everyday life both helps the aspirant know the community better, and maybe just as important, helps the commmunity get to know the aspirant better. I suspect, as well, that talking about some of these issues online helps aspirants realize that others think about these issues, and that it is not unusual or out-of-line to ask a potential community about some of these details. In fact, on the list of issues on a list made up awhile back of "possible red flags when considering a new community" (but applies to any community), is how open the community is about answering questions. Joining a community isn't like picking a college--the decision ideally is for life. To me, an aspirant asking questions helps her feel more comfortable, and is another way the Holy Spirit can help work to guide a woman to the right community. No one will ever have absolute certaintude, or know everything--it's not possible, even if they go on a live-in. But, I think having information, maybe not on everything, but on issues important to the aspirant, isn't showng a lack of faith--and could help her know when she's found the right community. No one is going to base their decision entirely on these everyday issues, but having answers can help an aspirant feel more sure--or be a way for the Holy Spirit to indicate that perhaps she needs to know more about a community or discern with a different community. Edited May 25, 2011 by IgnatiusofLoyola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Dominicans have a code, and that code is in place so that newbies can experience the "surprises" that come with the life. I don't know how many times Mother called me into her office when I was a Novice, to tell me to "put a lid on it" because in my zeal, I was way too open about the upcoming events the postulant's were in for... She wanted them to be SURPRISED. That's all there is to it. I am happy I didn't belong to a phorum in the months before I entered, because if someone blabbed everything that was going to happen to me the first year, especially the community's own unique traditions, I woulda been a little bummed... ...after Mother's little chastisement, I went off to create my own "traditions" for the postulants....like, when I told them they had to go barefoot to the Mass of the Last Supper...boy, I got into lotz of trouble for that one!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1306367735' post='2245999'] Dominicans have a code, and that code is in place so that newbies can experience the "surprises" that come with the life. I don't know how many times Mother called me into her office when I was a Novice, to tell me to "put a lid on it" because in my zeal, I was way too open about the upcoming events the postulant's were in for... She wanted them to be SURPRISED. That's all there is to it. I am happy I didn't belong to a phorum in the months before I entered, because if someone blabbed everything that was going to happen to me the first year, especially the community's own unique traditions, I woulda been a little bummed... ...after Mother's little chastisement, I went off to create my own "traditions" for the postulants....like, when I told them they had to go barefoot to the Mass of the Last Supper...boy, I got into lotz of trouble for that one!!! [/quote] You are such a brat! I can just picture all the postulants believing you and obediantly removing their shoes outside the chapel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1306367735' post='2245999'] Dominicans have a code, and that code is in place so that newbies can experience the "surprises" that come with the life. I don't know how many times Mother called me into her office when I was a Novice, to tell me to "put a lid on it" because in my zeal, I was way too open about the upcoming events the postulant's were in for... She wanted them to be SURPRISED. That's all there is to it. I am happy I didn't belong to a phorum in the months before I entered, because if someone blabbed everything that was going to happen to me the first year, especially the community's own unique traditions, I woulda been a little bummed... ...after Mother's little chastisement, I went off to create my own "traditions" for the postulants....like, when I told them they had to go barefoot to the Mass of the Last Supper...boy, I got into lotz of trouble for that one!!! [/quote] Oh, man! You were a horrible "big" Sister!!! That is too funny! Did the postulants find out about it afterward? If they did, I imagine there were lots of laughs! Edited May 26, 2011 by MaterMisericordiae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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