The Nuns' Story - A Hypothetical

[brandelynmarie]

Sounds like a thread to me.

[MarieLynn]

[quote name='brandelynmarie' timestamp='1320026993' post='2329157']
Sounds like a thread to me.
[/quote]

Great idea! Can someone start one for the 1960's group of returnees?

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1306451533' post='2246384']
Could it be that this tension between her being a nurse and being a religious sister is more of a contextual tension between apostolic religious life and monastic religious life in that time period? I haven't seen the movie, however, some practices mentioned - like obeying the bell - are very monastic and most apostolic communities at that time followed that kind of model even though it wasn't quite particular to their way of life. I don't mean apostolic in the sense that the sisters are not cloistered or have no ministry. I mean that some communities are called forth by the Holy Spirit to live a primarily apostolic life - the purpose being the sanctification of the members and the building of the Kingdom on Earth through a particular ministry; whereas (and I am not a monastic so I might not say this correctly), a more monastic life seems to prize sanctification of the members through and with an intensely communal life and the building up of the Kingdom of God through the prayers of the community. In the apostolic religious life, the ministry is essential - not primary - to the sanctification of the members of the institute and the Kingdom of God. In a more monastic sense, the ministry is secondary.

I see the problem being that apostolic religious are trying to conform to and build upon virtue and practice in ways that are not practical to their way of life. Prayer and community are essential to apostolic religious life and must be safeguarded but not through the same practices - ringing the bell, waking up at the same time, particular hygiene habits... In my own experience, I am a sister first - then a teacher. There is no question that "being" is more important than "doing." However - I know that God has given me the charism of my community for my own salvation and for the salvation of others. The teaching is a secondary essential. I don't know if that makes sense because I'm trying to put words onto something that I know in my heart but haven't tried to describe before, haha.
[/quote]

Someone resurrected this old thread and I had to read back a bit to see what we were talking about! And I came across this post of yours, Sister Marie, which I don't think really sank in at the time. But yes, of course you are so right! Life in active communities pre Vat 2 was almost like that of cloistered communities. I have read many books by ex nuns who described their formation and activities and so much of it was similar to what I experienced in the cloister. How untenable it must have been to try to live the monastic life while also living the apostolic life! No wonder so many felt stretched beyond their limits. And when there were times of even greater stress in society, such as WW2 or during the 60s when Vatican Council happened, the religious must have felt very pulled in different directions.

Probably if Sr Luke were in a convent today, she wouldn't have to choose between nun and nurse because they seem to be more aware now of the conflicts involved in trying to perform both functions. At least most active sisters I know live a less rigidly structured life than those in the monasteries. Yes, they still keep a routine of Mass, Office etc, but allowances are made for their ministry as well.

In the end however, it was a personal decision that she faced and we all face these every day in our lives. She made her choice, which she obviously felt was the right one for her at the time. And if she hadn't left, the story would never have been told (she wouldn't have met Kathryn Hulme who wrote it), and her story has reached so many people and had an impact on so many lives. God uses all of us, even our apparent failures.

[Totus Tuus]

It's been so long since I read the book, I can't remember enough to answer the poll.

[BarbTherese]

Quite generally speaking, back pre V2 there was not the discernment and discretion re those who enquired of religious orders. An application and then a letter from one's parish priest was about all one needed to be accepted into a religious order. And the letter from the pp need not be an outstanding reference, rather that one was a good practising Catholic in the parish was about all, although some pp's did write extensively about the person with a very high recommendation if they knew them sufficiently.
Also, (generaly speaking again) once one entered a community, the following years to final profession were not looked upon as far as the actual member was concerned as a journey of discernment, although it was accepted that the person could be sent away during that time. Pretty much, once one was through postulancy and clothed, it was regarded as a religious vocation and something of a disgrace to leave and shame to one's Catholic family - and quite shameful to be either asked to leave or to leave of one's own volition. It could even be regarded as a challenge to Faith itself.
These factors, coupled with the fact that in active communities very often had a monastic schedule of prayer and spiritual practices was kept - and was kept with strict application would have put tremendous stress on those unsure and perhaps unhappy.
Post V2 all this changed and it was very necessary that it all did change and hence (possibly) the great exodus of those leaving religious life could have been affected by any of the above.
Possibly Sister Luke never had a religious vocation but did have one to the nursing profession but this was never recognized by leadership in her congregation - although she did leave pre V2 and some did. It must have been particularly painful back then, both if one left of one's own choice or was asked to leave.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1324514005' post='2355509']
Possibly Sister Luke never had a religious vocation but did have one to the nursing profession but this was never recognized by leadership in her congregation - although she did leave pre V2 and some did. It must have been particularly painful back then, both if one left of one's own choice or was asked to leave.
[/quote]

I'm not sure about this one any more, after reading Sr Marie's post about trying to balance the apostolic life with the monastic one. Perhaps the timing was just wrong for Sr Luke because it was in the days when they had to live a monastic life while doing an apostolic mission, also at a time when the world was being torn apart. Maybe she could have made it if she were trying today. But, at least we all were able to be inspired and maybe even learn some things from her life story.

[Sister Marie]

If I might add on to my previous post too... apostolic religious life has an intrinsic difference from monastic, cloistered, semi-contemplative, or active - contemplative religious life. In all the others there can be some kind of ministry but it is more of an "add - on" to the life. In apostolic religious life the ministry is an integral part of the call to religious life. So, in this example, Sister Luke's vocation to an apostolic religious life, where nursing would be integral to her call, wasn't being fulfilled in the congregation of which she was a part.

Sometimes I think apostolic religious life gets the raw end of the deal because people still want it to be more monastic, "more prayerful", more structured than it is able to be. It is what it is supposed to be. It certainly is not "easier" now either. Discerners may look at our horarium and think, "wow, they hardly spend any time praying" or "wow, they don't spend any time together" or "wow, they are out of the convent a lot, they have too much freedom and not enough austerity." The truth is that you won't find all our prayer time in our horarium or a lot of penance, but it is there. I, personally, have my holy hour before the Blessed Sacrament an hour before most more monastic communities' horariums list "rising." That is a penance and an austerity and it is prayer that isn't listed but that most sisters make a part of their daily life at the time of day they are able. You would also find me praying my rosary while the kids were playing at recess because my prayer is very much a part of my apostolic committment. You may not find "recreation" listed in our horarium, but if you were in my convent right now you would see a sister stopping in my classroom to say hi, you would see us gathering for a snack after school, you would see us at parish events together, you would see us enjoy a lively dinner with one another, you would see us bring our papers to grade to the community room while we talk, and on the weekend you would see us work together on different projects. You would also find that I wish I could have more time in the convent but because I have a responsibility to my work as an integral part of my religious life, I will be at workshops for teachers, classes, at the store buying groceries, at the kids' games...

I know this has gotten a little bit off topic and I apologize... this is just something I've been thinking about a lot lately. My community's rule says that each sister strives for "apostolic sanctity" not "monastic sanctity" or "contemplative prayer" or "workoholic syndrome." It is a very delicate balance of community, ministry, and prayer that does call for a specific vocation to the life.

[savvy]

[quote]Sometimes I think apostolic religious life gets the raw end of the deal because people still want it to be more monastic, "more prayerful", more structured than it is able to be. It is what it is supposed to be. It certainly is not "easier" now either. Discerners may look at our horarium and think, "wow, they hardly spend any time praying" or "wow, they don't spend any time together" or "wow, they are out of the convent a lot, they have too much freedom and not enough austerity.[/quote]

Exactly! This was the issue I initially had with the community I am discerning with.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1324516769' post='2355553']
If I might add on to my previous post too... apostolic religious life has an intrinsic difference from monastic, cloistered, semi-contemplative, or active - contemplative religious life. In all the others there can be some kind of ministry but it is more of an "add - on" to the life. In apostolic religious life the ministry is an integral part of the call to religious life. So, in this example, Sister Luke's vocation to an apostolic religious life, where nursing would be integral to her call, wasn't being fulfilled in the congregation of which she was a part.

Sometimes I think apostolic religious life gets the raw end of the deal because people still want it to be more monastic, "more prayerful", more structured than it is able to be. It is what it is supposed to be. It certainly is not "easier" now either. Discerners may look at our horarium and think, "wow, they hardly spend any time praying" or "wow, they don't spend any time together" or "wow, they are out of the convent a lot, they have too much freedom and not enough austerity." The truth is that you won't find all our prayer time in our horarium or a lot of penance, but it is there. I, personally, have my holy hour before the Blessed Sacrament an hour before most more monastic communities' horariums list "rising." That is a penance and an austerity and it is prayer that isn't listed but that most sisters make a part of their daily life at the time of day they are able. You would also find me praying my rosary while the kids were playing at recess because my prayer is very much a part of my apostolic committment. You may not find "recreation" listed in our horarium, but if you were in my convent right now you would see a sister stopping in my classroom to say hi, you would see us gathering for a snack after school, you would see us at parish events together, you would see us enjoy a lively dinner with one another, you would see us bring our papers to grade to the community room while we talk, and on the weekend you would see us work together on different projects. You would also find that I wish I could have more time in the convent but because I have a responsibility to my work as an integral part of my religious life, I will be at workshops for teachers, classes, at the store buying groceries, at the kids' games...

I know this has gotten a little bit off topic and I apologize... this is just something I've been thinking about a lot lately. My community's rule says that each sister strives for "apostolic sanctity" not "monastic sanctity" or "contemplative prayer" or "workoholic syndrome." It is a very delicate balance of community, ministry, and prayer that does call for a specific vocation to the life.
[/quote]

Sr Marie - don't apologise! you are completely on topic here! Before you posted about the conflict between apostolic and monastic life, I just wasn't thinking about Sr Luke's dilemma in those terms. To me, it was nun or nurse. And now I can see that there is a vocation to an apostolic religious life, which is different from the monastic or semi-contemplative active life. I can't imagine how you manage to do it all, and I can see that the penance is inbuilt into your life, and that you are the Marthas of religious life, making your work also your prayer. And when you are able to grab some time to pray, it must be heaven for you. thank you for helping me to understand so much better, and this relates especially to what Sr Luke must have been going through, in addition to the War and losing her father. I feel so much more sympathy for her now than I ever have!

[Sister Marie]

Thanks Nunsense,

I discerned both contemplative and apostolic religious life before I entered my community and I have a great appreciation for contemplative life and I frequently run to that community with prayer requests for school and for my own community because I value so much their work of prayer. (I also love going there when I have time for vespers with the sisters and to bring them a little treat!) We are all sisters after all! I just am so in love with the religious life that God has given me that I do want very much for others to be able to see it and experience it in the light that I see it in. I think there has been a wonderful surge in vocations to contemplative life and so it is becoming more and more understood in religious circles while apostolic life has been waning and has become more misunderstood. But... it's a great life! Thanks for everything you add to the conversation about contemplative life.

PS I know you are visiting a new community soon and I hope all goes well!

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1324517884' post='2355563']
Thanks Nunsense,

I discerned both contemplative and apostolic religious life before I entered my community and I have a great appreciation for contemplative life and I frequently run to that community with prayer requests for school and for my own community because I value so much their work of prayer. (I also love going there when I have time for vespers with the sisters and to bring them a little treat!) We are all sisters after all! I just am so in love with the religious life that God has given me that I do want very much for others to be able to see it and experience it in the light that I see it in. I think there has been a wonderful surge in vocations to contemplative life and so it is becoming more and more understood in religious circles while apostolic life has been waning and has become more misunderstood. But... it's a great life! Thanks for everything you add to the conversation about contemplative life.

PS I know you are visiting a new community soon and I hope all goes well!
[/quote]

Sr Marie

When I was young and energetic, I wanted to be an apostolic sister (spent time working with the Missionaries of Charity) but by the time I was baptised and ready to discern religious life, so many communities were going through a really tough time with post Vat 2 changes and I didn't feel attracted to entering any of them in their chaos. I have been a nurse and a teacher and worked with children in foster care and lived a very apostolic life outside of religious life. Now that I am able to discern again, I am no longer young and energetic, and I can't imagine trying to balance the apostolic with the monastic the way that you do, so I am very inspired by you and those who do live the life. I will pray for more vocations to apostolic religious life because you are right, it does seem as if many young people are attracted to monastic life these days (perhaps the 'romance' of it). It wouldn't have been my choice in my 20s, but now in my 50s, the monastic life is very appealing to me.

Yes, I am discerning with the Benedictines, who are monastic, but hospitality is an essential part of their work, so they have more interaction with the outside world than the Carmelites do. Their focus is a life balanced on work and prayer, but their work remains within the monastery rather than doing an outside apostolate. I just feel that their outlook and attitude is very healthy and I am looking forward to spending time with them. Thank you for your prayers.

The good thing about apostolic life, is that you are able to come here and post, and show young people just what that form of life is like! So you are able to promote the life in a way that many monastics can not!

[savvy]

[quote]To me, it was nun or nurse. And now I can see that there is a vocation to an apostolic religious life, which is different from the monastic or semi-contemplative active life. I can't imagine how you manage to do it all, and I can see that the penance is inbuilt into your life, and that you are the Marthas of religious life, making your work also your prayer.[/quote]

Yes, Sister Marie is phenomenal!

[Sister Marie]

It's nice for me to post on here too... in the midst of the lesson plans and papers scattered across my desk... it's nice to have a more mature outlet for educating about religious life. I love my kids, but I do also love being able to talk with all of you about religious life. You challenge me and enrich me all the tme to live my own vocation better so - THANK YOU.

[savvy]

[quote]I will pray for more vocations to apostolic religious life because you are right, it does seem as if many young people are attracted to monastic life these days (perhaps the 'romance' of it). It wouldn't have been my choice in my 20s, but now in my 50s, the monastic life is very appealing to me.[/quote]

I was very attracted to monastic life and still am, but God had other plans. I was upset that this was the case, but I should trust God.

[savvy]

[quote]I think there has been a wonderful surge in vocations to contemplative life and so it is becoming more and more understood in religious circles while apostolic life has been waning and has become more misunderstood. But... it's a great life![/quote]

Sister, I think this should be brought up in talks on vocations. The community I am discerning with is active, and the founder was not in favour of praying long hours, fasting etc. These things might be the rule for another community. It does not make one better than the other, just different. There is a tendency to see the latter as more devout.

Edited December 22, 2011 by savvy