Finding It Hard

[faithcecelia]

Last week I completely ended all discernment with my old community. Although this was a painful decision to make, I think it was the right one, and my communication with my former prioress seemed to confirm my decision.

Two weeks ago I visited Kirk Edge and was told that I had been given a glowing reference, this had also been the case when I went to Notting Hill in February. For various reasons, while I liked both communities, I do not feel they are where I am meant to be.

This weekend I am going to Wolverhampton, and have been corresponding with their prioress for about a week now (yes, its pretty fast I admit). She emailed me the other night telling me she had recieved a rather negative reference from my old prioress, which she would need to take seriously, and did I still want to visit or not. I am quite upset by this! I am still going to go - I have faith that any decisions that are make will take account of how I am and what I say etc. A big part of me wants to get in toach wirh my old prioress and ask her why, but I am resisting as I don't want to make it worse for myself. I am also concerned at a breech of confidentiality that has occurred.

I don't really know why I am posting this, I guess I am after assurrance it will be okay, but know no-one can give me that.

[LaPetiteSoeur]

Praying for you, Faith! All in God's time.

:

[organwerke]

I am so sorry for you!! A painful situation indeed!!
I have a little advice, but take it as you want.
You say:
[quote]A big part of me wants to get in toach wirh my old prioress and ask her why, but I am resisting as I don't want to make it worse for myself. [/quote]
I agree, I think it is better not to have contacts or ask why, this could easily become even worse for you.
What I'd do is to say this last Community you are not sure now if you want to go because you have not much time or money to spend and you would like to avoid to do a visit if they are already inclined not to accept you.
If they are interested in knowing you even if they recieved this reference, they'll explicitly invite you to go.
If they say you are right that it would be a useless visit, you'll have avoided an unnecessary stress!

[AccountDeleted]

I wonder why the Prioress went from giving you a good reference to a bad one? I think you could safely contact her and express your confusion at the change of mind and ask her why she felt this was necessary. I wouldn't write - I would phone and speak to her personally.

As for Wolverhampton, perhaps it would be a good idea to discuss the bad reference head on, and explain your point of view about the things that happened. You could also say that you are confused because previously you were given a good reference. They might choose to ignore the bad reference or to give you a try and evaluate for themselves. It obviously is a stumbling black, but I don't think any vocation goes completely smoothly from start to finish, and this might just be a way for you to see what you really do want. After all, if you find that you don't feel drawn to WV either, then nothing lost in going for the visit, is there?

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1306231044' post='2245307']
Last week I completely ended all discernment with my old community. Although this was a painful decision to make, I think it was the right one, and my communication with my former prioress seemed to confirm my decision.

Two weeks ago I visited Kirk Edge and was told that I had been given a glowing reference, this had also been the case when I went to Notting Hill in February. For various reasons, while I liked both communities, I do not feel they are where I am meant to be.

This weekend I am going to Wolverhampton, and have been corresponding with their prioress for about a week now (yes, its pretty fast I admit). She emailed me the other night telling me she had recieved a rather negative reference from my old prioress, which she would need to take seriously, and did I still want to visit or not. I am quite upset by this! I am still going to go - I have faith that any decisions that are make will take account of how I am and what I say etc. A big part of me wants to get in toach wirh my old prioress and ask her why, but I am resisting as I don't want to make it worse for myself. I am also concerned at a breech of confidentiality that has occurred.

I don't really know why I am posting this, I guess I am after assurrance it will be okay, but know no-one can give me that.
[/quote]

I can imagine how confusing and upsetting it can be to have a negative review after two positives, but I don't blame you at all. I'd contact the Prioress, too, and have a talk with her about why you feel it is a violation of trust and confidentiality and ask her why things have changed. You obviously don't need to get mean about it, but she really needs to know how you feel. I would feel rather wounded if a former Superior did that to me, too.

As for this new community, it would probably be a very good idea if you talk to the Prioress in private and explain what happened. Like nunsense said, they may just overlook the negative review and decide to make their minds up themselves. The Prioress may see that it was not a good experience for you all things considered.

I hope you have a wonderful time this weekend. Prayers!

[beatitude]

I think your character will speak for itself when you meet the sisters of Wolverhampton. You are good at taking and assimilating fair criticism, and that comes across in discussion with you. I would not speak with your old prioress until after the visit to Wolverhampton; following your decision to end your discernment with her monastery, it may be that she herself needs some extra time for prayer and thought.

[vee]

I am my own bad reference.
prayers for your discernment.

[faithcecelia]

Thanks for all your replies

I sent a quite detailed email to Wv the early hours of yesterday and providing I don't get a very negative response I will still go on Sunday. So far, the communities I have visited (both Carmels and others) have all liked me - I was actually accepted by a Poor Clares community when I was far, far more fragile than I am now, even with them knowing what had happened - so I am reasonably hopeful that I will make a good impression.

Beatitude - I really do try to take critism well, I'm not sure I succeed!

I may well get back in touch with my old prioress after the weekend, when we will have both had longer to ponder all that has happened over the last few years, as I am sure she will agree that the reference should be based on the whole picture not just one decision.

[carmenchristi]

I agree with those who say to contact the prioress who gave you a bad reference. Speak with sincerity and charity, also praying the Holy Spirit to help you understand what she might not say to you. Maybe you did something wrong, I don't know the situation or the facts, but it could be that this prioress was upset that you left their convent and only for that reason formed a bad opinion of you. It could be any number of things. I think you have the right to know why. Maybe this is just a test of your perseverance.

Also remember, it [i]is [/i]protocol that references be asked of other communities that you have entered, so that isn't necessarily a breech of confidentiality (wheras it [i]would [/i]be if someone were to ask the opinion of a spiritual director or confessor), but it also depends on what [i]kind [/i]of reference they gave. For example: "I think Susy Q would make a bad religious because she told me that she has visions of going to rob from the cookie jar on fast days" That would be a breech of confidence. Whereas a statement like this would not be a breech of confidence: "Under the circumstances in which we were able to observe Susy Q, it appears that she may not have a vocation because she has shown unwillingness or extreme and possibly insuperable difficulty (=external manifestation, able to be observed beyond a private colloquy) to adhere to certain rules."

You are in my prayers.

CC

[Yaatee]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1306254623' post='2245391']
Thanks for all your replies

I sent a quite detailed email to Wv the early hours of yesterday and providing I don't get a very negative response I will still go on Sunday. So far, the communities I have visited (both Carmels and others) have all liked me - I was actually accepted by a Poor Clares community when I was far, far more fragile than I am now, even with them knowing what had happened - so I am reasonably hopeful that I will make a good impression.

Beatitude - I really do try to take critism well, I'm not sure I succeed!

I may well get back in touch with my old prioress after the weekend, when we will have both had longer to ponder all that has happened over the last few years, as I am sure she will agree that the reference should be based on the whole picture not just one decision.
[/quote]


Well, Nunsense can actually give you the best advice, having lived in both KE and Wv, but here goes my two cents' worth:

I would visit the former prioress, if you can, otherwise talk to her on the phone, and explain that you had been informed about both references and ask why she may have given the refs the way she did. It may be she was tailoring them to the prioresses. It may she thought that you would like KE, which you didn't after the interview and wouldn't like Wv--bad reasons for tailoring a reference, but possible, I suppose. Be pleasant and above-board. Don't accuse her of anything. Wish her well.

During your interview at WV, address all the problems you had at your previous Carmel and what you are doing or did about them and the circumstances. I'll bet all these prioresses know each other and their comunities very well. Take full responsibility and ownership for the problems you had. My impression of the Wv prioress from Nunsense is that she is very flexible (unless there's a new one). To me it sounds like a nice Carmel.

Good luck and keep up posted! You will find a lot of support here.

[faithcecelia]

Thanks again

I was honest in my first email, giving a reasonable amount of detail about myself, my upbringing and conversion, my time at Q and why I was sent away, and what has happened since. I also stated (and repeated in my next email) that I would gladly go into more detail on any/all issues as they wished. I simply cannot pretend that nothing went wrong - it changed my life too completely to even begin to.

When I went to Notting Hill their prioress asked if I minded Q being contacted, I replied with a [i]very [/i]long email telling absolutely everything and giving consent but also asking if possible could she wait until she had met me as I am now before finding out too much about how I had once been! She agreed based on the detail, and phoned during my visit. She then told me that no further facts had been mentioned, only my praise sung. Wirh Kirk Edge the prioress there told me she had been suprised but pleased to recieve a glowing reference as she had not requested one at all! That was absolutely fine by me!

This time the reference had been requested, and was negative. The confidential information was from an appointment I had had where we all signed confidentiality clauses and I am the only person who can give consent for it to be discussed, so this is what has upset me the most. Again, its not something I would choose to withold, but it is something I would bring up after an initial opinion has been formed (its not 'major', Im not a murderer or anything!)

I might drop the old prioress an email and ask if she could suggest a good time for me to phone her to talk - that way I can phone her office rather than the main number where it would be overheard.

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='Yaatee' timestamp='1306255592' post='2245394']

Good luck and keep up posted! You will find a lot of support here.
[/quote]


That is understatement of the month! I wish I had found this forum years ago, or even 18mths when I was first sent away. The posters here are absolutely amazing.

[Santa Cruz]

Oh dear! In such a short amount of time your former Prioress has changed her opinion and without any obvious explanation. Perhaps the Prioress at WV asked a direct question which entailed the exact matter of confidentiality. Caught in a difficult place, your former Prioress told her thereby breaching your confidentiality.

For instance, WV may have decided that they will not accept persons who chew with their mouth open. You told your former Prioress in strict confidentiality that you used to chew with your mouth open. Then, the Prioress at WV asked your former Prioress, "Has Faith ever chewed with her mouth open"? Your former Prioress was now caught in an awkward situation, wanting to be honest with WV but also wanting to respect your confidentiality. In that situation, people often need training on how to handle such a question. I used to work with pregnant women who were coming from homelessness so I was taught to answer questions as these by giving a general response such as, "I would not release any information of that nature without first receiving a consent from Faith, unless of course she could pose a danger to your Community or herself if she were accepted into your convent".

So, perhaps the review was not negative but one particular matter (chewing with your mouth open) which weighs heavily in their admission criteria has caused the WV Prioress to conclude that you are not a fit for her Community?

You seem so clear about what type of Community God is calling you to enter. On your own, perhaps you would conclude that WV is not the right one. I am glad you are still open to going. That reveals a lot about you, that you don't let misunderstandings or emotions get in the way of God's Will and with zeal you are striving to follow Him.

I do not see anything wrong with contacting your former Prioress. Open dialogue is very important. It may have been a big misunderstanding that could get cleared up with a phone call.

Please don't forget to take care of yourself, basking in prayer, eating well and sleeping well and getting some good laughs so that you will be strong when you visit.

We all will be praying for you, that God's Will may be done in this little mess. Oh, and don't forget, most important, be sure to chew with your mouth closed during your visit.

[faithcecelia]

Well, I will just have to see how things go at the weekend and where I will go from there. I have just emailed *another* Carmel as well - surely there has to be one that I like and where they like me?!

[SevenSwans]

I will add my prayers for you as well.