BarbTherese Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Back pre V2 and for many even years after V2, one went into religious life with romantic notions totally unprepared for the daily realities one was going to have to handle. One knew almost nothing about life inside a convent or monastery - not like today. Things have changed nowadays and they really did need to change. My experience is that one went in blind, absolutely blind almost as to the realities of life within a convent or monastery. Compared to what we knew, it is amazing, truly amazing, of just how much information about life inside convent and monastery is available. It is wonderful for those considering religious life especially. I picked up this link from the Catholic Answers thread and gives some good background on Sr.Luke from her actual life, especially after she left religious life: http://www.zoefairbairns.co.uk/nunsstory.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jCtbCw5H-rk/R3R5A2EO_tI/AAAAAAAAA3I/tV0aHW4kKj4/s400/carmelite+11.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Yaatee' timestamp='1306254569' post='2245390'] There is a book called "Grace Before Meals" published in the US, which describes the sort of penances such as begging the soup, which Sr. Luke experienced, and a lot more, kneeling in the refectory while others ate, prostrating during meals, eating on the floor, etc., which were practiced in this country up to Vat II. Pretty horrifying . [/quote] I am in Australia incidentally and my experience is Australian. Until the changes in religious life through V2 began to actually change religious life itself as it was lived, extreme practises persisted after V2 and then with the changes coming through into religious life itself, there was the exodus of many from religious life. Some religious could no longer understand what the life was all about after many years living in the rigidity of the life and having adjusted to it psychologically. As some began to leave confused because religious life was undergoing change in a way of life that had not changed for centiries, I think others may have followed simply because it was no longer such a rare and unsual matter to leave and religious life had been a difficult struggle for them, although life back in secular lay life was not easy - and after many years under very strict obedience and not having to be responsible for their personal survival needs, they had to think and provide for themselves in order to just survive even. Some became quite bitter. It was time of tremendous upheavel and confusion for many in The Church. Edited May 24, 2011 by BarbaraTherese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faithcecelia Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 [quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1306258176' post='2245406'] I am in Australia incidentally and my experience is Australian. Until the changes in religious life through V2 began to actually change religious life itself as it was lived, extreme practises persisted after V2 and then with the changes coming through into religious life itself, there was the exodus of many from religious life. Some religious could no longer understand what the life was all about after many years living in the rigidity of the life and having adjusted to it psychologically. As some began to leave confused because religious life was undergoing change in a way of life that had not changed for centiries, I think others may have followed simply because it was no longer such a rare and unsual matter to leave and religious life had been a difficult struggle for them, although life back in secular lay life was not easy - and after many years under very strict obedience and not having to be responsible for their personal survival needs, they had to think and provide for themselves in order to just survive even. Some became quite bitter. It was time of tremendous upheavel and confusion for many in The Church. [/quote] This book [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nun-But-Brave-Fictional-Reflection/dp/0854394435/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306259987&sr=8-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nun-But-Brave-Fictional-Reflection/dp/0854394435/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306259987&sr=8-1[/url] is good. Okay, so far too much happens to one individual, but the author states from the off that its made up of lots of stories from lots of sisters/former sisters. It shows the ups and downs, the laughs and the tears as one particular active order moves forward into the modern world. 2 bits make me cry to even think of them - the old sister crying because if she had waited a year to enter she would have had Mass in English for her jubilee, and another old sister crying as for the first time in her life she regretted turning down a marriage proposal. It shows how hard the changes were all round. It also talks of how essential it was to change the veils - look at some of the veils on the 'habit' thread and then imagine driving in them!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaatee Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Anyway, I strongly advise anyone who hasn't both read the book and seen the movie--to do so! It's very interesting and entertaining. Book available on amazon.com from $8, if not thru your local library. DVD available on netflix, amazon instant video for under $3.00, and new or used DVD from $6.00--if not thru your local library! Go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 [quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1306256565' post='2245400'] Back pre V2 and for many even years after V2, one went into religious life with romantic notions totally unprepared for the daily realities one was going to have to handle. One knew almost nothing about life inside a convent or monastery - not like today. Things have changed nowadays and they really did need to change. My experience is that one went in blind, absolutely blind almost as to the realities of life within a convent or monastery. Compared to what we knew, it is amazing, truly amazing, of just how much information about life inside convent and monastery is available. It is wonderful for those considering religious life especially. I picked up this link from the Catholic Answers thread and gives some good background on Sr.Luke from her actual life, especially after she left religious life: [url="http://www.zoefairbairns.co.uk/nunsstory.htm"]http://www.zoefairba...k/nunsstory.htm[/url] [/quote] Thanks for that article; how interesting!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antigonos Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I both saw the movie and read the book and it impressed me tremendously, since at the time I already knew I would become a nurse. Sr. Luke is based on Marie Louise Habets, who was a Sister of Charity of Jesus and Mary for 17 years although she stressed that the book was "a work of fiction". The religious life of the 1920s up to and through the Second World War was very different from that of today. For one thing, in Europe of the time the vast majority of nurses were nuns [which is why nurses in the UK and Europe are called Sister to this day]. Sr. Luke, although a very devout Catholic, really entered the religious life to be a nurse. Reverend Mother Emmanuel says to her at the end "you entered the convent to be a nun, not a nurse" but by that time Sr. Luke had realized she simply could not obey conflicting requirements any more. There were many other differences from the present, such as the class of postulants being 40 in number, and acceptance was based on a simple interview [this from the book]. New groups entered every three months, and the mother house itself contained more than 200 sisters. The sisters were not encouraged to have any relationship with one another and were instructed to never touch one another. Complete detachment was stressed, and obedience was extended to such things as asking permission to have a glass of water between meals [that must have kept the superiors busy!] In the book Sr. Luke notes that if she had been able to "compare notes" with other postulants it might have aided her formation, but there was no opportunity for this -- and postulants and junior professed did not even talk to the solemnly professed except in matters of work. The Nashville Dominicans seem to have the lifestyle most similar, from what I've seen, in the sense of admitting groups of postulants instead of one at a time, and having a large mother house for formation. Amazingly, the Catholic Church was not happy at all that the film was made, although it actually resulted in a wave of vocations, and was the most popular film Audrey Hepburn ever made. A superior of Habets', whose name in religion was Sister Mary Xavierine, called the film "a desecration". At the time, laicization was extremely difficult. [I was suprised, at first, at the number of Phatmassers who have made repeated attempts to enter religious life. In the book, Sr. Luke has to promise, when she leaves, that she "will never wear the habit of religion again" and I thought this was usual] Habets met Katherine Hulme after the war ended; she was nursing in a refugee camp called Wildflecken, and the two of them lived together for the rest of their lives. She convinced Hulme, a lawyer by profession, to convert to Catholicism, but Habets never really adjusted to secular life, suffering from episodes of depression. The film, btw, is available on DVD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I heard Hume speak at a conference in Phoenix decades ago. I won't repeat what she said here because last time I did, it started quite a fight. I found the discussion of post war refugee camps very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWIE Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 [size="4"][/size][font="Book Antiqua"][/font][quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1306249054' post='2245371'] Many times over the years. The first time when I was a teenager, and had the romantic notion that she would go off to the Congo after the war and marry the doctor. Reality was much more disappointing. [/quote] [b]Hello SMC, back from the Novice Mistresses meeting?[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 [quote name='EWIE' timestamp='1306268689' post='2245455'] [b]Hello SMC, back from the Novice Mistresses meeting?[/b] [/quote] Wrong person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I've seen the film and I see it as showing the human aspect of religious life--how superiors make mistakes too and the struggles that sisters and nuns go throughout their lives. I'm glad that communities are not nearly that strict anymore, especially in regards to forming friendships amongst the sisters. I don't think that I would even last two weeks in an environment like that. It seems too cold, unloving, and scrupulous. Sr. Luke didn't appear to be prideful at all. The community should have celebrated her talents and praised God for having her instead of catering to that one sister who may have been insecure or jealous of her. I remember watching part of the film one time years before seeing the whole thing and was horrified by the rigid community, especially the naming of faults seen. I've had the tendency over the years to be scrupulous and if i had been in that community, that would have only made that tendency worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 [quote name='EWIE' timestamp='1306268689' post='2245455'] [size="4"][/size][font="Book Antiqua"][/font] [b]Hello SMC, back from the Novice Mistresses meeting?[/b] [/quote] lol Catherine M and SMC ... that would be an entertaining Venn Diagram. I have never seen the movie, but I've perused the book. I never put too much stock in tales told by Hollywood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaPetiteSoeur Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1306232681' post='2245312'] ..........and didn't Audrey Heburn make an absolutely beautiful nun! Her transformation after her clothing was profound - but then I think every postulant has a profound transformation when clothed in the habit. They seem to go from a person of this world dressed in black often, into a person that is definitely not of this world - a companion of angels. That is to appearances. And doesn't Peter Finch act brilliantly the athiest and totally outspoken, but brilliant, work-a-holic docotor. Excellent casting! Were any acting awards handed out? [/quote] The acting was very good; the roles the actors and actresses were playing were vastly different from their everyday lives and they were excellent. The movie, while the ending makes me cry (And I don't think Sr. Luke really discerned her calling to the convent, just the nursing), is very informative on the history of religious life. Do you still have a question?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmb144 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I did an assignment on the book and the movie last semester, so I own both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I wonder if in the 20's they allowed lay nurses to go to the Congo? That might explain why she didn't just become a nurse rather than entering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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