Eastern And Western Catholicism

[Lisa]

I just ran across another kind of snarky thread about the differences in the Eastern and Roman rites of the church, and it got me wondering about the differences. I read Wikipedia, and it explained some of it, but I think it would be nice for all of us to have a little side-by-side explanation.

Also, if you are an Eastern Catholic/or truly know a lot about them:

What makes the Divine Liturgy different than the Mass?
Also, this might seem like a really dumb question, but is Eastern Orthodox and Eastern rites of the Catholic Church the same?
Do Eastern Catholics receive the Eucharist at Mass, and vice versa?

By learning about each other without debate, hopefully we can celebrate our unity within the Holy Catholic Church! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/buddies.gif[/img]

[Chamomile]

[quote name='Lisa' timestamp='1306191842' post='2245096']
I just ran across another kind of snarky thread about the differences in the Eastern and Roman rites of the church, and it got me wondering about the differences. I read Wikipedia, and it explained some of it, but I think it would be nice for all of us to have a little side-by-side explanation.

Also, if you are an Eastern Catholic/or truly know a lot about them:

What makes the Divine Liturgy different than the Mass?
Also, this might seem like a really dumb question, but is Eastern Orthodox and Eastern rites of the Catholic Church the same?
Do Eastern Catholics receive the Eucharist at Mass, and vice versa?

By learning about each other without debate, hopefully we can celebrate our unity within the Holy Catholic Church! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/buddies.gif[/img]
[/quote]

I can try to answer a little bit, but my knowledge is very limited. A site with some commonly asked questions is [url="http://www.east2west.org/"]East 2 West[/url]. I don't know if I agree with everything the author writes, but I remember some of it being good.

So first, it would be more accurate to speak of Churches in communion with Rome rather than Eastern and Western Rites. At least, this is how I think it's best understood - to me, saying only "Eastern Rite" or "Roman Rite" would reduce the differences to just the corporate acts of worship, whereas there is an entire spirituality behind each Church.

The Divine Liturgy is the same sacrifice of Christ as is present in the Mass. To reduce the two to basic parts, there is a Liturgy of the Word and Liturgy of the Eucharist. So yes, Eastern Catholics receive Jesus in the Eucharist. There is really no adequate way to describe the Divine Liturgy - [i]the best thing to do is experience it[/i], and any Catholic may attend a Divine Liturgy and receive the Eucharist. Almost the entire service is sung/chanted (depending on the Church, maybe in a different language than English), incense is always used, and the bread used for Communion is leavened. Those are just some main differences between the Mass and Divine Liturgy that come to mind now, but it really is incredibly beautiful and speaking about it (especially coming from someone as inexperienced and unenlightened as myself!) is nothing like the worship itself. There is more of an emphasis on the Holy Trinity - e.g., you cross yourself a lot more and do so in a specific way that reflects the nature of the Trinity and Christ.

As most people know, the Church was united as one until the Schism. The Eastern Catholic Churches take their history from what became the Orthodox Church - they came back into communion with Rome sometime after the Schism (about 500 years later for the Church I attend) due to many different factors that are particular to each Church. Their spirituality and worship is, therefore, Orthodox. Depending on which Eastern Church we're referencing and the individual person, really, Eastern Catholics may seem more Orthodox than Catholic in some ways. And if by "Catholic" one means Roman Catholic, this is the way it should be (Vatican II even encouraged this return to Eastern spirituality for the Eastern Catholic Churches). As to where doctrine and dogma fall within this communion... it's complicated and something that confuses and frustrates me if I think too much about it.

When you asked "Do Eastern Catholics receive the Eucharist at Mass, and vice versa?" did you mean do Orthodox Christians receive the Eucharist? Yes, most definitely they do. And it's a very sad reality that we aren't in communion with one another, but pray that talks between the two Churches will be filled with understanding, forgiveness, and Truth.

I've done a very poor job explaining what little I know - and there really is so much more!- and if I've made any mistakes, someone more wise please correct me.

P.S. I don't think it's possible to have a "side-by-side" comparison.... really, that would be a more Western Christian kind of approach to understanding Eastern Christianity Also, I've used the term "Church" in a way that may be confusing to some people that are used to equating the Church (e.g.-Body of Christ) with the Roman Catholic Church. I've used it to mean local self-governing Churches and the Body of Christ.

[Chamomile]

Another important note: the Eastern Catholic Churches don't use the [i]flioque[/i] in the Creed (I believe in the Holy Spirit, who proceeds from the Father [i]and the Son[/i]) since that was an addition to the original Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed not accepted by those Churches that became Orthodox. The presence of the [i]filioque[/i] in the Creed of the Roman Catholic Church is a hinderance to Orthodox-Catholic reunion.

I read recently that one of the differences between Eastern Catholics and Orthodox is that though they share the same outlook regarding things like this, Eastern Catholics don't see the breaking of communion with Rome because of it as necessary while those who are Orthodox believe that communion can't be maintained when the Faith is seemingly changed like this.

ETA: If I've said anything that misrepresents either Orthodoxy or Catholicism, please forgive me.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Chamomile

[Chamomile]

And if you don't know about the Mystery (Sacrament) of Marriage in Eastern Churches...

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_the_Eastern_Orthodox_Church"]Read here[/url]


[url="http://orthodoxwiki.org/Marriage"]and here[/url]


[url="http://www.orthodox.net/articles/matrimony.html"]and here[/url]


[url="http://www.goarch.org/chapel/liturgical_texts/wedding"]and here[/url]

[Chamomile]

Wow... is there really no one else that knows much about Eastern Catholicism or Orthodoxy or is one of those two things on Phatmass... or maybe they just don't want to post?

I was hoping someone else would come along and correct me or add things to what I've said - especially about Oriental Catholics since I don't know much about them.

As far as learning more, a good site and forum to read through is [url="http://www.byzcath.org/"]ByzCath.org[/url]. I haven't seen threads get "snarky" there, so that would probably be a good place to get some more information - and there are Eastern Catholics, Oriental Catholics, and Orthodox that post there, so you can get a variety of opinions and have a greater sense of the diversity within the Church.

But the best way to learn about Eastern Catholicism is to participate in the worship

Peace.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Chamomile

[tinytherese]

I'd recommend talking to Apotholeun on here who is an Eastern Christian.

[sixpence]

this reminds me .. i think I will check out the local Maronite church soon...

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1307641058' post='2251673']
I'd recommend talking to Apotholeun on here who is an Eastern Christian.
[/quote]
I don't think Apotheoun frequents our forums anymore, unfortunately.

[Ephrem Augustine]

When an Eastern Christian (Orthodox or Catholic) uses the term "Orthodox" they mean "Correct Worship"
When a Western Christian uses the term "Orthodox" they usually mean "Correct Belief/Doctrine"

Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Divine Liturgy emphasizes the heavenly banquet with the Glorious Christ.
Western Latin Catholics Mass emphasizes the expiation of our sins on the Cross by the sacrificial Paschal Lamb, that takes away the sins of the world.

There could probably be a longer list of side by side comparisons and contrasts to understand the rich distinct identities in our Christian traditions, I don't want to flood you with all the other good gems already said.

[Lisa]

I had lost track of this thread- thanks for the responses Cham and Ephrem! I'm going to check out the links you shared!

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Ephrem Augustine' timestamp='1307676416' post='2251880']
When an Eastern Christian (Orthodox or Catholic) uses the term "Orthodox" they mean "Correct Worship"
When a Western Christian uses the term "Orthodox" they usually mean "Correct Belief/Doctrine"

[/quote]

I'd like to add that you are correct on your meaning of orthodox with a lower case "o" meaning correct belief, but the upper case "O" is referring to the Eastern Orthodox. Orthopraxis is correct behavior.

[Chamomile]

[color="#696969"][quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1307729836' post='2252081']
I'd like to add that you are correct on your meaning of orthodox with a lower case "o" meaning correct belief, but the upper case "O" is referring to the Eastern Orthodox. Orthopraxis is correct behavior.
[/quote]

For some reason, your clarification totally confused me. I tried to write something about this awhile ago, but I failed at trying to explain this confusion, so I never wrote anything in response. Then I came across this lovely definition of Orthodoxy from, of course, an Orthodox Christian:

[/color]
[font="Helvetica, sans-serif"][i] [/i][quote][i][color="#696969"]Orthodoxy[/color][/i][color="#696969"] really is a glorious word (literally!). The [/color][i][color="#696969"]orthos[/color][/i][color="#696969"] literally means "straight," but of course it metaphorically means "true" or "reliable." The [/color][i][color="#696969"]doxa[/color][/i][color="#696969"] portion of the word can mean any and all of the following: notion, opinion, teaching, glory, worship, praise, reputation, judgment (i.e., a discernment), expectation, imagining, fancy, dream, vision, effulgence and splendor. And I daresay that for the Orthodox Church, [/color][i][color="#696969"]orthodoxy[/color][/i][color="#696969"] means all of those things together. Orthodoxy is the straight/true/reliable notion/opinion/teaching/glory/worship/praise/reputation/judgment/expectation/imagining/fancy/dream/vision/effulgence/splendor. Those who think orthodoxy is really just about a set of concepts and words are either ignoring or unaware of the rest of this vast universe of meaning.[/color][/quote] [/font]
[font="Helvetica, sans-serif"]
[/font] [font="Helvetica, sans-serif"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"][color="#696969"]You can read the rest of the author's post [/color][url="http://roadsfromemmaus.org/2011/07/08/freedom-the-path-to-god-and-the-orthodoxy-of-orthodoxy/"][color="#696969"]here[/color][/url][color="#696969"]. [/color][/font][/font] [font="Helvetica, sans-serif"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"] [/font][/font] [font="Helvetica, sans-serif"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"][color="#696969"]I'm not saying your definition is technically wrong... but there's definitely a difference in even the way the East and West would view such an approach to defining Orthodoxy - capital or little [/color][i][color="#696969"]o[/color][/i][color="#696969"]. Or at least that's my very limited understanding of it [/color][/font][/font]