Spiritual Depression Due To Vain Discernment

[sistersintigo]

Nunsense is to be commended for her distinction between Acedia and the Dark Night. About the Dark Night I don't have an opinion to offer here.
Yes, Acedia is a concept going back to the eremitical life of the Desert Fathers.
The Carthusian Order, one of the medieval orders which drew great inspiration from the Desert Fathers centuries before them, takes Acedia very seriously. Even the monks in the hermitages incorporated into any Charterhouse -- a Carthusian monastery -- consider Acedia a temptation that is built into their very lifestyles.
In the last hundred years or so, the Carthusians, famous for centuries for their non-communication and silence, have been publishing in the English language as never before. Some of their essays, meditations, and conferences are still in print; some volumes can be found from second-hand/antiquarian sources even when the specific edition has been out of print for some time. Numerous readers have expressed their gratitude for the writings which are available these days, so it might be worth looking around for these modest books about Carthusian life.
Many such books are anonymous, with the author identified only as A Carthusian.
There are exceptions. Dom Augustin Guillerand never published during his lifetime. He was born in France before the turn of the century. By the time he was old enough to have gone through seminary and been ordained a diocesan priest, the First World War had passed and the Grande Chartreuse had been shut down by the French authorities. So he entered the Carthusian order in the part of Switzerland where French is spoken, at the Charterhouse of La ValSainte.
He was an old man by the time the Second World War broke out. Fortunately for the expatriate French Carthusian monks, there was a brief window of time in which it was possible for them to get back to France and return to the newly re-opened Grande Chartreuse, the motherhouse of the Order. Dom Guillerand died there in the 1940's, leaving, within the ranks of monks and nuns alike, a towering reputation as a novice master, confessor, and chaplain. So great was the demand for something, anything, of Dom Guillerand's to be preserved for posterity and published posthumously, that this came to pass. He wrote in his native French which was very plain, simple, easy to understand in style. His work has been published in numerous languages, of which English is one, under his own name. It was never something that he himself had in mind, as he was averse to exposure personally; but he is, in death, one of the better-known Carthusian authors. Deeply scriptural -- he had a special passion for the Gospel of John -- and he knew what Acedia was, along with other hazards. Guillerand comes highly recommended.

[TeresaBenedicta]

Interesting topic.

For myself, I've certainly experienced periods of frustration and various 'depressive' episodes. But I've come to recognize those episodes for what they are... emotions. Our human nature is very tied up in our emotions and in our desires. Do I desperately desire to enter [i]now[/i]? Sure! And sometimes that desire is so overwhelming that I feel like a child who has yet to learn to control their emotions-- sometimes I feel like throwing a tantrum, or crying, or unable to fall asleep, etc.

And sometimes the situation seems so bleak to me that there's no end in sight. No chance of me ever being able to enter. Hopeless. I should just give up and get on with my life. Prayer? Who cares.

But these are all on the emotional level. One of my biggest lessons that God has been teaching me during this time of waiting is [i]complete abandonment to His will, right here, right now.[/i] Not in the future. But now. And to trust Him that He has everything under control. That my first desire and love is for His will alone. For Him alone.

So when these emotions come (and they do!), I talk to Jesus about them. I force myself to continue to prayer, go to daily Mass, keep up with my spiritual plan of life. It's tough at times. And I fall. And fail. And then throw myself into His arms again.

Just remember... it's all about loving Jesus. I'm only now seeing just how true this is. I mean, of course I loved Jesus early in my discernment! But the order of importance and amount of time and energy... most was spent on discernment. I remember from the very get-go my spiritual director told me that we'd be focusing just on loving Jesus and growing in prayer... NOT discernment. It took me about a year and a half of frustration with him that we weren't working on discernment before I finally gave in and focused all of my attention just on Jesus- no string attached (not expecting clarity right away regarding my vocation).

Focus on Jesus. Focus on prayer. [i]Loving[/i] Him. [i]Knowing[/i] Him. Live [i]now[/i] completely abandoned to His will for you. Everything else will fall into place. As St. Augustine said, "Love; and then do what you will." If you learn now to be content with and to love God's will for you, right where you are... and if you continue to grow in abandonment to this will... Every moment of your life will be spent in this abandonment, and you are sure to not miss your vocation.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='LaPetiteSoeur' timestamp='1306164910' post='2244877']
I used to think I had it all planned out (insert laughs here).

I would go to university, marry a wonderful Catholic guy, have twelve kids, homeschool them, and quilt.

Then junior year of HS came and boy o boy was I suprised. I thought I'd fully gotten the "Religious life" out of me (not happening, ever). I started to stop denying God and asked Him what I was supposed to do. The answer I got was to serve Him by devoting myself to helping others through religious life.

Then I discovered the NDs. I really liked them. I wrote to them twice and thought about visiting. But I still didn't feel so "at home." I looked then into the DSMMEs. Great order as well.

But I can't find where I belong. I really like the Dominican spirituality. But no Dominican order I found was really dedicated to helping the poor and abandoned, an apostolate I feel called to. So now I'm searching for where I'm supposed to be.

I'm looking into the SSVMs and the Carmelites of the Divine Heart of Jesus. I know God leads us where we're supposed to go, but I wish I knew now. Patience, patience, patience.

My parents told me to finish univeristy; I have a scholarship and the rest is paid easily by my family (thank you, merciful Lord) so loans aren't a huge deal. I'll finish early, too, probably. Waiting isn't an issue, it's the not knowing where I'm supposed to be.

I'm praying for all of you, I hope you can do the same for me.


Dieu vous benisse.
[/quote]

Have you ever looked into the Dominican Sisters of Hawthorne? They have the apostolate of caring for the sick and poor in their various houses across the US. I contacted them when I was considering becoming a nurse, but now I know that I am wanting to become a social worker instead.

http://www.hawthorne-dominicans.org/s000.htm

[Santa Cruz]

[quote name='FutureSister2009' timestamp='1306162216' post='2244854']
My spiritual depression does not have to do with finding the right community, I'm almost certain of my community. My spiritual depression has to do with the fact that my mom will not let me enter. She doesn't understand how much I want this. She wants me to wait a year and I am so terrified of losing my Vocation. She said if I go now, I have to finance it myself. I want to go now but I also want her to be there with me when I take my vows and receive my habit. I want her to help me plan my shower and everything but she won't do it now. I can't stand waiting any longer. It's really truly breaking my heart.
[/quote]

I have been praying for you. I see your posts expressing your desire to enter Religious Life now and the heart ache that being asked to wait is causing you and really, that is beautiful. You are 19 years old and you want nothing more than to offer your life to God as self- gift. Surely God and our Blessed Mother are pleased! Also, you are blessed with parents who are looking after you and who are involved in your life, concerned for your proper maturation. You mentioned that your mother even knows some of the Sisters from the Community you are feeling called to enter. How beautiful is that! Indeed, a tremendous blessing.

I am sure you have read Therese's "Story of a Soul"? The Holy Father recently recommended that if you have read it, that you should re-tread it. Look how Therese used her time of waiting, what she did with it.

There are so many people who are 19, 20...and pleasing God does not cross their mind. Perhaps you could offer your own agony for them, praying for their conversion. Also, many youth today suffer because their parents are not at all involved in their life, do not look after their well-being...You could also pray for them and for their parents. This will help get you out of your own misery and others will benefit by your prayer.

As far as your timing, whether you go now, without your parents blessing or whether you wait, I don't want to comment. I do know that God will grow you as you wait, preparing you for what He has for you. Do you have a Spiritual Director and a regular Confessor? A Spiritual Director is so important in discernment as is frequent Confession.

I will continue to pray for you and thank God that you are responding to His graces...

[FutureSister2009]

[quote name='Santa Cruz' timestamp='1306178484' post='2244987']
I have been praying for you. I see your posts expressing your desire to enter Religious Life now and the heart ache that being asked to wait is causing you and really, that is beautiful. You are 19 years old and you want nothing more than to offer your life to God as self- gift. Surely God and our Blessed Mother are pleased! Also, you are blessed with parents who are looking after you and who are involved in your life, concerned for your proper maturation. You mentioned that your mother even knows some of the Sisters from the Community you are feeling called to enter. How beautiful is that! Indeed, a tremendous blessing.

I am sure you have read Therese's "Story of a Soul"? The Holy Father recently recommended that if you have read it, that you should re-tread it. Look how Therese used her time of waiting, what she did with it.

There are so many people who are 19, 20...and pleasing God does not cross their mind. Perhaps you could offer your own agony for them, praying for their conversion. Also, many youth today suffer because their parents are not at all involved in their life, do not look after their well-being...You could also pray for them and for their parents. This will help get you out of your own misery and others will benefit by your prayer.

As far as your timing, whether you go now, without your parents blessing or whether you wait, I don't want to comment. I do know that God will grow you as you wait, preparing you for what He has for you. Do you have a Spiritual Director and a regular Confessor? A Spiritual Director is so important in discernment as is frequent Confession.

I will continue to pray for you and thank God that you are responding to His graces...
[/quote]

Thanks. I know I post it a lot and I'm sure it's getting annoying but it's always on my mind. I can't help it. I apologize.

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='FutureSister2009' timestamp='1306179116' post='2244990']
Thanks. I know I post it a lot and I'm sure it's getting annoying but it's always on my mind. I can't help it. I apologize.
[/quote]

Waiting time is both hard and precious. I had to wait over 2yrs to enter first time due to paying off a loan, it was agony and I tried everything possible to get there sooner. I have now been out approaching 2yrs and am desperate to return, every day is agony and everytime I arrange to visit a community I long for it to be the 'right' one. I also know, however, that every delay and every setback allows God's grace a chance to work in me, and I can only be grateful for that.

[Santa Cruz]

[quote name='FutureSister2009' timestamp='1306179116' post='2244990']
Thanks. I know I post it a lot and I'm sure it's getting annoying but it's always on my mind. I can't help it. I apologize.
[/quote]

You are not annoying. You make me smile and I also sympathize with you. No need to apologize.


[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1306179527' post='2244991']
Waiting time is both hard and precious. I had to wait over 2yrs to enter first time due to paying off a loan, it was agony and I tried everything possible to get there sooner. I have now been out approaching 2yrs and am desperate to return, every day is agony and everytime I arrange to visit a community I long for it to be the 'right' one. I also know, however, that every delay and every setback allows God's grace a chance to work in me, and I can only be grateful for that.
[/quote]

I hear ya sista!

[BigJon16]

I've often gotten depressed for various reasons about my vocation. The fact that there are so many different paths one could take in order to serve God makes it hard to find the right one, and that can be frustrating. Personally I know I have a lot of time to find my path, and that when I do, I will be very happy.

What gets me most depressed are the little thoughts of doubt that creep into my head sometimes. Thoughts like: "am I truly called to Priesthood, or is my "calling" just one big miconseption?" or "I really want to be a priest, but what if thats not what God wants?" Those thoughts really get me down alot, but I like to remember this in those times of doubt: [color="#FF0000"]"Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me."[/color] John 14:1

You will be in my prayers. I pray for all those who actively post in the Vocation Sation.

[das8949]

[quote name='Santa Cruz' timestamp='1306173430' post='2244937']
Hi Darlene, You have addressed me in your post? I don't think I am the person you are intending as what you are saying does not apply to me, well, at all.
[/quote]


So Sorry - You are absolutely right! I am new to the Phorum and put this message in the wrong place. Is there a way to delete it?

I am so sorry

[das8949]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1306176255' post='2244959']
Have you ever looked into the Dominican Sisters of Hawthorne? They have the apostolate of caring for the sick and poor in their various houses across the US. I contacted them when I was considering becoming a nurse, but now I know that I am wanting to become a social worker instead.

[url="http://www.hawthorne-dominicans.org/s000.htm"]http://www.hawthorne...ns.org/s000.htm[/url]
[/quote]


Here is another link - Dominican Sisters inSpringfield MA

[url="http://www.springfieldop.org/"]http://www.springfieldop.org/[/url]

[MargaretTeresa]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1306168793' post='2244900']
And another prayer from St Ignatius

Take, Lord, and receive all my liberty,
my memory, my understanding,
and my entire will,
All I have and call my own.


You have given all to me.
To you, Lord, I return it.


Everything is yours; do with it what you will.
Give me only your love and your grace,
that is enough for me.





[/quote]

Vee, I love this. It makes me think of Carmel.

I dunno if you've realized, but this sudden contemplativeness has really got me thinking about Carmel again. So I'm praying and making prayer cards and trying to be happy.

[Ave Maria Totus Tuus]

Hello all,

It has been quite a while since I've posted on Phatmass. But I definitely have been lurking, despite my absence in posting!

I understand all the feelings that have been discussed thus far in the thread. I have been discerning a call to the religious life for four years now, a call which I recognized in the middle of college, and felt more than ready to answer if it weren't for all those circumstances of my life at the time that prevented me from entering at that time, and would keep me from being able to enter for at least six years. As a priest told me during that time, sometimes the seemingly temporal circumstances of our lives are clear signs of God's will! It was hard to swallow that, but when I did, it brought me immense freedom.

I finished college two years ago, and am now two years into a commitment, with two years left to go before it is complete. My biggest fears with surrendering to my life's circumstances and allowing God to work in me was the thought that I would "lose my vocation." Well, if that happens, then maybe I didn't even have a vocation to begin with!

What I do know is that I have been out living in the world, in an extremely secular form of work, and God has shown me so many things. He has challenged me to love Him when it is not easy to do so. He has shown me the beauty of married life, of parenthood--an appreciation I'd say I never really had when I first started discerning. It took me to be out in the world to realize it. And God willing, if I do become a religious, that appreciation and even desire for marriage will be nothing but beneficial and important to my life in the religious state. God has shown me the beauty and importance of the lay vocation--to be a lay person out in the world, preaching the Gospel with your very life. It has been a beautiful time.

Yet, at the same time, the call to religious life has not left my heart. When I really think about the DEEPEST desires of my heart, I think I know what He is asking. But I continue to wait and see, to know that He is in control, and to surrender.

So if you find yourself in despair with the thought of having to wait to enter religious life, just know that God might be doing something very intentional for you. Even if it is just one soul touched or one lesson learned during your time of waiting, it will have been worth it and will have been necessary!

This quote has got me through many hard moments:

"An upright heart and a good will.
With these, and your mind intent on carrying out what God wants,
you will see your dreams of Love come true, and your hunger for souls satisfied."

St. Josemaria Escriva


Let's pray for each other!


It is important to remember not to be fearful. Fear is not of God. Do not be afraid! Trust. Hope. And don't worry!

[Sarah147]

[quote name='Catherine Therese' timestamp='1306109835' post='2244634']
I can't emphasise enough the importance of ACTIVELY realising that a vocation is God's call to God's plan, in God's timing.

By ACTIVELY I mean that it is not enough to acknowledge this on an intellectual level. This intellectual realization needs then to inform your actions and you need to live accordingly. Otherwise you're going to drive yourself nuts with frustration.

In my personal experience, God's call wasn't a single, life-defining gong in my ear. It was a gentle whisper that recurred over a long, long time. Each little whisper built ever-so-slightly on the previous one. Over time this developed into a coherent message that I eventually understood and could respond to. But when the whispers first started coming, I DIDNT have a coherent message and I COULDNT 'do' anything about it except getting on with TRYING (and more often than not failing) to live a good and prayerful life.

It sounds like you may have heard a whisper - maybe several. And you've jumped to attention and wholeheartedly responded by going and investigating all the different charisms and orders in order to see if any of them stood out as the direction in which you were being led. This is GREAT, but now the ball is in God's court! You can't DO anything to speed this along. Let God do the doing! I promise you - if you have a vocation to religious life and you've done everything that you have said, another whisper will come. And another. Until you understand enough about where God is leading to ease your frustration and take whatever step is next.

At this point, in my humble opinion and with my limited life experience, I offer the following two suggestions:

1. Read (slowly and prayerfully) the following books, preferably in the order listed:
* Searching For and Maintaining Inner Peace (Fr Jacques Philippe)
* In the School of the Holy Spirit (Fr Jacques Philippe)
* Interior Freedom (Fr Jacques Philippe)
* And You Are Christ's (Fr Thomas Dubay)

2. Disengage from active 'searching' and trying to 'force' the vocation discernment process. Get on with your life and wait, again ACTIVELY, for God to work in you. By actively, I mean focus on your relationship with God, not on what He might be calling you to do and be. If you have established a good pattern of regular prayer (daily Mass where possible, daily rosary, daily time in silent meditation and some spiritual reading are the most important ones. If you're able, its great to include Morning and Evening Prayer from the Divine Office, too) then maintain this, focus on doing this faithfully, attentively and well. NOT with any strings attached that mean you're expecting immediate vocational awareness - aim to do this simply to work on your relationship with God. (If you don't have a pattern of prayer like this just yet, work towards establishing it. Not all at once - just a little bit at a time, or you'll quickly become discouraged.)


I really think this is all you need to 'do' for now. The relationship with God is the most important thing, the ONLY important thing. The books will help with some good, firm, commonsense guidance in the spiritual life, Fr Jacques Philippe is a master and his work is such a breath of fresh air. Having done these two things you'll become so attuned to God's work in your life that you will almost certainly be able to hear His voice clearly and understand where He is leading you.

Be patient and let God do His work in you. You are a child, He is your Father. YOU don't have to pay the bills or lock the house up at night - that is your Father's job. You only need to love and honour your Father and enjoy His love and protection.

I hope this helps! I might not be a crash hot advice-giver and the above might not speak adequately to your situation - if this is the case, at least be assured of my prayers for you! God bless
[/quote]


A w esome, a w esome, a w e some!

[Sarah147]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1306174653' post='2244946']
Interesting topic.

For myself, I've certainly experienced periods of frustration and various 'depressive' episodes. But I've come to recognize those episodes for what they are... emotions. Our human nature is very tied up in our emotions and in our desires. Do I desperately desire to enter [i]now[/i]? Sure! And sometimes that desire is so overwhelming that I feel like a child who has yet to learn to control their emotions-- sometimes I feel like throwing a tantrum, or crying, or unable to fall asleep, etc.

And sometimes the situation seems so bleak to me that there's no end in sight. No chance of me ever being able to enter. Hopeless. I should just give up and get on with my life. Prayer? Who cares.

But these are all on the emotional level. One of my biggest lessons that God has been teaching me during this time of waiting is [i]complete abandonment to His will, right here, right now.[/i] Not in the future. But now. And to trust Him that He has everything under control. That my first desire and love is for His will alone. For Him alone.

So when these emotions come (and they do!), I talk to Jesus about them. I force myself to continue to prayer, go to daily Mass, keep up with my spiritual plan of life. It's tough at times. And I fall. And fail. And then throw myself into His arms again.

Just remember... it's all about loving Jesus. I'm only now seeing just how true this is. I mean, of course I loved Jesus early in my discernment! But the order of importance and amount of time and energy... most was spent on discernment. I remember from the very get-go my spiritual director told me that we'd be focusing just on loving Jesus and growing in prayer... NOT discernment. It took me about a year and a half of frustration with him that we weren't working on discernment before I finally gave in and focused all of my attention just on Jesus- no string attached (not expecting clarity right away regarding my vocation).

Focus on Jesus. Focus on prayer. [i]Loving[/i] Him. [i]Knowing[/i] Him. Live [i]now[/i] completely abandoned to His will for you. Everything else will fall into place. As St. Augustine said, "Love; and then do what you will." If you learn now to be content with and to love God's will for you, right where you are... and if you continue to grow in abandonment to this will... Every moment of your life will be spent in this abandonment, and you are sure to not miss your vocation.
[/quote]


Soooooooo true. I believe good spiritual directors will have everyone focus on loving Jesus.

[Santa Cruz]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1306168571' post='2244898']
To quote the thread title "Spiritual Depression Due To Vain Discernment" I can only add that trying to figure out or discern God's will for one's life is never ever in vain. The safest place to be is in His will.

So true! Thank you for picking up on that! That is such an important point. What is vain discernment? Wouldn't that be looking for a way of life that fulfills all my wants and needs rather than listening to hear how and where God can use you to build up His Kingdom, how and where you can bring Him the greater glory? Of course we all have intentions that need purifying along the way but I doubt anyone here would be discerning in vain.

Nothing is wasted with God.