Let's Begin At The Very Beginning...

[beatitude]

Hello everyone.

I've felt drawn towards the religious life ever since I was a little girl (since I met my first sister, aged nine) but until recently I wasn't in a position to do anything about the feeling. I visited a Carmelite monastery during my undergraduate years at university (Quidenham, Faithcecelia's old haunt!) and was quite scared by the affinity I felt for that life. Until then I had always assumed that I would be an active sister, and I told God darkly that he had another thing coming if he thought he was getting me behind four walls. I did keep researching, though, and within a couple of months I had found the Carmel of Golders Green. I told God then that if the feeling hadn't gone away by the time I graduated, I would contact those nuns.

A combination of heavy caring responsibilities for a very sick friend (closer than an average friend - our circumstances mean that we've been more like biological sisters) and serious health problems of my own meant that the possibility of monastic life receded. I was secretly relieved by this. I knew that I was unlikely to recover fully from my illness: all the medical staff involved in my care told me that relapse is common, although reprieve is not. I assumed that this meant I was forever disqualifed from religious life. Then I, err, got better. That was unexpected. I was supposed to say a bit unwell - not unwell enough to have serious problems and have restrictions on the things I wanted to do in life, but unwell enough to avoid this issue!

I celebrated my recovery by taking a job as a peace worker with a Catholic charity in Palestine/Israel. Being here has deepened my understanding of prayer's power and its significance for our lives. When I'm doing something difficult or tense (such as negotiating with the Israeli soldiers) I become very aware of all the people in the world whose hidden prayers are making it possible for the interaction to be peaceful and fruitful. I can feel how we all fit together in God's beautiful creation and his work of redemption. Previously I think I wanted to join an active order to hedge my bets - just in case prayer doesn't really work, you know. Being here has shown me that it's the most important thing we have. If I have a contemplative vocation, I'm ready to test it.

I have a short list of communities to contact, although privately I think I'm unlikely to get beyond the first one. And it's a very short list - there are only two communities on there!

[url="http://www.carmelnuns.org.uk/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=11"]Golders Green/Preston Carmel[/url]. Faith tells me that the two are amalgamating. It's quite an extraordinary coincidence, as Golders Green is the Carmel that attracted me originally, and Preston is my hometown. Its Carmel is built within sight of the hospital where my much-loved grandma died, and consequently the nuns regard it as their special duty to pray for the sick. I am touched by that.

[url="http://www.walsinghamcommunity.org/"]Community of Our Lady of Walsingham[/url]. This is a contemplative but non-enclosed community whose principal mission is retreat work, evangelism, and the promotion of vocations. Their spirituality is Carmelite. I have met the founding sisters; I liked them very much. The shrine at Walsingham also has a special place in my heart - I go there whenever I can.

I know that in the old days, it wasn't the norm for people to look over a large geographical area for communities; they tended to go somewhere close to home. Sometimes I wonder if this simple way wasn't best, as otherwise people get sidetracked and bewildered by the myriad options and the search for the 'perfect' fit. It becomes a distraction. I've had enough of distractions now. I think the time has come to be direct. Please pray for me.

[faithcecelia]

I well understand the discussions with God about what his plan should be! When i went to my first come and see (incidentally with COLW!) I thought that once I had been and seen then God would know that it wasn't what he wanted for me!! In the end the complete opposite happened, and from tentatively visiting an active community hoping I wouldn't like it I soon found myself drawn into enclosure and being 'alone with the Alone'

I can't remember if I actually told you this or if you know or whatever, but Golders Green are currently living at Preston, still technically 2 Carmels while they discern the best way to move forwards (as I said to you the other day, its actually things like grilles, customs etc that is causing the delay). If you do still feel drawn to GG, then why not arrange to visit once you are home? You would have the experience and prayers of TWO prioresses at the moment!!

COLW are a lovely community, and I know they were disappointed when I decided to go to Quidenham rather than go to them as we had become good friends. They did, however, support me and actually visited me a couple of times at Q. Their Servant is, I must say, very much the dominant figure there (as usually happens with a new foundress) and I have at times found her a bit much for me - I love her dearly as a person but I do think I would have struggled living with her and having her as my formator. They are a very busy little community and often need to adjust their horarium depending on where they are and what guests they have, this was something i would have struggled with too as I need rhythm and order to my life - i find structure freeing if that makes sense. They are wonderful though, and i also know their current postulant (maybe novice now?) from my old parish.

I for one am extremely happy that you are well now and I am sure God helped you through that for a special reason You are ALWAYS in my prayers

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1305794617' post='2243529']
I well understand the discussions with God about what his plan should be! When i went to my first come and see (incidentally with COLW!) I thought that once I had been and seen then God would know that it wasn't what he wanted for me!! In the end the complete opposite happened, and from tentatively visiting an active community hoping I wouldn't like it I soon found myself drawn into enclosure and being 'alone with the Alone'

I can't remember if I actually told you this or if you know or whatever, but Golders Green are currently living at Preston, still technically 2 Carmels while they discern the best way to move forwards (as I said to you the other day, its actually things like grilles, customs etc that is causing the delay). If you do still feel drawn to GG, then why not arrange to visit once you are home? You would have the experience and prayers of TWO prioresses at the moment!!

COLW are a lovely community, and I know they were disappointed when I decided to go to Quidenham rather than go to them as we had become good friends. They did, however, support me and actually visited me a couple of times at Q. [b]Their Servant is, I must say, very much the dominant figure there (as usually happens with a new foundress) and I have at times found her a bit much for me - I love her dearly as a person but I do think I would have struggled living with her and having her as my formator.[/b] They are a very busy little community and often need to adjust their horarium depending on where they are and what guests they have, this was something i would have struggled with too as I need rhythm and order to my life - i find structure freeing if that makes sense. They are wonderful though, and i also know their current postulant (maybe novice now?) from my old parish.

I for one am extremely happy that you are well now and I am sure God helped you through that for a special reason You are ALWAYS in my prayers
[/quote]

That's not only the case with this order. My friend, earlier in her discernment, before she entered the Carmelites of the Divine Heart of Jesus, visited a new order out in Steubenville, OH. She related to me that she felt the foundress was pressuring her to join even though she didn't feel called. Never a good sign. She said she loved the order, but felt she needed to discern more, but she stayed friends with the Sisters and visited them again just for retreats.

I think some formators are a little too hasty to find applicants. The order I previously applied to handed me the application for entrance right after my first visit. The novice mistress even asked me during the retreat when I would like to enter. I wished I had waited and thought about it some more. I discovered the apostolate--working with abused and developmentally disabled children--was not the apostolate for me.

[AccountDeleted]

If Golder's Green Carmel are still at Preston, they probably won't be moving any time soon. They actually closed down and moved to Preston while I was still at Wolverhampton in 2008 - that's three years ago! Wolverhampton managed to 'inherit' some of their furniture including a lovely statue of St Teresa of Avila, which we repainted and put in the foyer of the chapel.

I thought GG were supposed to go join up with another Carmel (not Preston) and that Preston was just a stop along the way while this other Carmel found a suitable monastery for the two communities (they had sold theirs). I can't remember the name of this other Carmel but it would be whichever one sold their monastery off!

If you're still looking for a Carmel, check out Wolverhampton - they are lovely.

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1305798845' post='2243539']

I thought GG were supposed to go join up with another Carmel (not Preston) and that Preston was just a stop along the way while this other Carmel found a suitable monastery for the two communities (they had sold theirs). I can't remember the name of this other Carmel but it would be whichever one sold their monastery off!



[/quote]


I *think* Up Holland may be the 3rd, they were definately talking of a 3 way amalgamation last I heard.

[Lisa]

well, hello! Glad you are joining us! Hopefully you will find the VS community helpful while you discern (I have!)- lots of people entering, in the first stages of discernment, and even some religious who pop in to keep us on track

Prayers and best of luck!

[beatitude]

Thank you all for the warm kind-hearted welcome.

Faith, I met the founding sisters of COLW a few years ago, and I've kept running into them since at Youth 2000 events. I see what you mean. I think it would be hard for any superior to prevent her personality from becoming dominant when the community is so small, especially if she is a naturally charismatic and lively person. Every new community probably has this difficulty to some degree. I may go to one of their Come and See events, principally because of my devotion to Our Lady of Walsingham, but in my heart of hearts I think it will be the cloister for me if it's anywhere.

MaterMisericordiae, I think the situation with COLW is different from the one you describe - having chatted with the COLW sisters about vocation before, I can say that they made no attempt to pressure me. Instead they asked very thoughtful sensitive questions about what made me think I had a vocation, what my prayer life was like, etc. I mentioned my fear of the cloister, and the prioress/community servant explicitly said to me, "You must go where you feel called. If God wants you to be a Poor Clare, you will be happy as a Poor Clare." Helping people to find their vocation in life is a big part of their community's mission, so it goes against their principles to exert undue pressure for people to join them - they run a vocations group that sees people getting married, becoming contemplative nuns, joining active orders, everything! Life in a small new community is not for everyone, obviously, but I wouldn't want people to be put off approaching COLW for fear that they will be pushed into applying.

Nunsense, Golders Green will be my initial point of contact, as they were the community that appealed to me the most strongly when I started looking six years ago. I am just going to concentrate on one monastery for now, and I will look elsewhere if that need arises.

Prayers and love to you all.

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1305819087' post='2243593']
Thank you all for the warm kind-hearted welcome.

Faith, I met the founding sisters of COLW a few years ago, and I've kept running into them since at Youth 2000 events. I see what you mean. I think it would be hard for any superior to prevent her personality from becoming dominant when the community is so small, especially if she is a naturally charismatic and lively person. Every new community probably has this difficulty to some degree. I may go to one of their Come and See events, principally because of my devotion to Our Lady of Walsingham, but in my heart of hearts I think it will be the cloister for me if it's anywhere.

MaterMisericordiae, I think the situation with COLW is different from the one you describe - having chatted with the COLW sisters about vocation before, I can say that they made no attempt to pressure me. Instead they asked very thoughtful sensitive questions about what made me think I had a vocation, what my prayer life was like, etc. I mentioned my fear of the cloister, and the prioress/community servant explicitly said to me, "You must go where you feel called. If God wants you to be a Poor Clare, you will be happy as a Poor Clare." Helping people to find their vocation in life is a big part of their community's mission, so it goes against their principles to exert undue pressure for people to join them - they run a vocations group that sees people getting married, becoming contemplative nuns, joining active orders, everything! Life in a small new community is not for everyone, obviously, but I wouldn't want people to be put off approaching COLW for fear that they will be pushed into applying.

Nunsense, Golders Green will be my initial point of contact, as they were the community that appealed to me the most strongly when I started looking six years ago. I am just going to concentrate on one monastery for now, and I will look elsewhere if that need arises.

Prayers and love to you all.
[/quote]



Yes, COLW is different from others in that there is no pressure to enter there, they are extremely supportive whatever your vocation as their charism is to support vocation in all its forms. Also the foundress has experienced the early zeal, high entry numbers and poor formation in a new community first hand and is determined COLW will be different - she actually prays for one new entrant a year, so formation can be slow, steady and personal. What I found was personal questioning and individual pressure, if that makes sense? Which I think comes from her genuine concern for each person but can be a tad OTT.

i would definately recommend their come and sees, if only because Abbotswick is absolutely beautiful (and just round the corner from where I used to work!!) as is Brentwood Cathedral where they go for Sunday Mass. They also have insider info on communities which can aid discernment.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1305819087' post='2243593']
Thank you all for the warm kind-hearted welcome.

Faith, I met the founding sisters of COLW a few years ago, and I've kept running into them since at Youth 2000 events. I see what you mean. I think it would be hard for any superior to prevent her personality from becoming dominant when the community is so small, especially if she is a naturally charismatic and lively person. Every new community probably has this difficulty to some degree. I may go to one of their Come and See events, principally because of my devotion to Our Lady of Walsingham, but in my heart of hearts I think it will be the cloister for me if it's anywhere.
[b]
MaterMisericordiae, I think the situation with COLW is different from the one you describe - having chatted with the COLW sisters about vocation before, I can say that they made no attempt to pressure me. Instead they asked very thoughtful sensitive questions about what made me think I had a vocation, what my prayer life was like, etc. I mentioned my fear of the cloister, and the prioress/community servant explicitly said to me, "You must go where you feel called. If God wants you to be a Poor Clare, you will be happy as a Poor Clare." Helping people to find their vocation in life is a big part of their community's mission, so it goes against their principles to exert undue pressure for people to join them - they run a vocations group that sees people getting married, becoming contemplative nuns, joining active orders, everything! Life in a small new community is not for everyone, obviously, but I wouldn't want people to be put off approaching COLW for fear that they will be pushed into applying.[/b]

Nunsense, Golders Green will be my initial point of contact, as they were the community that appealed to me the most strongly when I started looking six years ago. I am just going to concentrate on one monastery for now, and I will look elsewhere if that need arises.

Prayers and love to you all.
[/quote]

I'm glad to hear it. I worry about those communities that put undue pressure on those discerning. It's not healthy at all. I'm glad to hear that wasn't the case.

[Yaatee]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1305819087' post='2243593']
Thank you all for the warm kind-hearted welcome.

Faith, I met the founding sisters of COLW a few years ago, and I've kept running into them since at Youth 2000 events. I see what you mean. I think it would be hard for any superior to prevent her personality from becoming dominant when the community is so small, especially if she is a naturally charismatic and lively person. Every new community probably has this difficulty to some degree. I may go to one of their Come and See events, principally because of my devotion to Our Lady of Walsingham, but in my heart of hearts I think it will be the cloister for me if it's anywhere.

MaterMisericordiae, I think the situation with COLW is different from the one you describe - having chatted with the COLW sisters about vocation before, I can say that they made no attempt to pressure me. Instead they asked very thoughtful sensitive questions about what made me think I had a vocation, what my prayer life was like, etc. I mentioned my fear of the cloister, and the prioress/community servant explicitly said to me, "You must go where you feel called. If God wants you to be a Poor Clare, you will be happy as a Poor Clare." Helping people to find their vocation in life is a big part of their community's mission, so it goes against their principles to exert undue pressure for people to join them - they run a vocations group that sees people getting married, becoming contemplative nuns, joining active orders, everything! Life in a small new community is not for everyone, obviously, but I wouldn't want people to be put off approaching COLW for fear that they will be pushed into applying.

Nunsense, Golders Green will be my initial point of contact, as they were the community that appealed to me the most strongly when I started looking six years ago. I am just going to concentrate on one monastery for now, and I will look elsewhere if that need arises.

Prayers and love to you all.
[/quote]

The Golders Green website is now Preston.

Go to:

[url="http://www.carmelnuns.org.uk/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=13&MMN_position=17:17"]http://www.carmelnun..._position=17:17[/url]

...and click on "Golders Green":

[url="http://www.carmelnuns.org.uk/preston/index.html"]http://www.carmelnun...ston/index.html[/url]

Lovely grounds and buildings. Upholland also has lovely grounds. I wonder how they are going to combine?

Edited May 20, 2011 by Yaatee

[beatitude]

I know they're now using Preston's website. Before I was talking about their old personal site, which was at http://www.ocdbvm.org.uk. Parts of it are [url="http://web.archive.org/web/20060907043756/http://www.ocdbvm.org.uk/"]still accessible[/url] through the WayBack Machine. It's worth a look, especially the beautiful page on prayer.

They are already sharing a monastery with Preston and have been for about four years. As Faith wrote, now they are working on how to join together smoothly, as they have different customs and interpretations of Carmel. The physical aspect of the amalgamation already seems to have been taken care of. As we don't know exactly what their plans are, I think it's unhelpful to speculate too much - I will give more info when I've been in contact with them. I'm sending a letter this week.

[Studiumecclesiae]

The Carmels of Golders Green, Langham and Darlington, have closed.

For an up-to-date list of all the womens contemplative convents in the UK. Please visit:
[url="http://cloisters.tripod.com/vocations_uk/"]http://cloisters.tripod.com/vocations_uk/[/url]

PAX †
StudiumEcclesiae

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='Studiumecclesiae' timestamp='1305904105' post='2243850']
The Carmels of Golders Green, Langham and Darlington, have closed.

For an up-to-date list of all the womens contemplative convents in the UK. Please visit:
[url="http://cloisters.tripod.com/vocations_uk/"]http://cloisters.tri...m/vocations_uk/[/url]

PAX †
StudiumEcclesiae
[/quote]


Golders Green still exist as their own, independant community. They are now living at Preston Carmel but are their own seperate community at present. No amalgamation has actually taken place yet.

[Catherine Therese]

beatitude - you have my prayers. God bless you and guide you! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/nunpray.gif[/img]

[beatitude]

Darlington Carmel hasn't closed. The nuns have just moved into a smaller monastery, as the upkeep of their old one was getting too much for them. They were offered the opportunity to disperse between other Carmels, or to amalgamate, but they were quite clear that they wanted to remain in Darlington. They are on Cleveland Avenue now. The story of their move is available [url="http://www.carmelite.org/index.php?nuc=news&func=view&item=291"]here[/url].

The [url="http://www.carmelnuns.org.uk/"]official website[/url] of the Carmelite nuns in Britain shows that the Golders Green nuns are sharing a monastery with the Preston sisters whilst retaining their own identity as the Community of the Holy Family. I stumbled on a blog post about Darlington's supposed closure several weeks ago, written by the lady who maintains that Cloister Outreach site, and it made me feel a little cross - what if somebody living in North East England comes across it and goes away thinking that Darlington Carmel really has closed? The best source of information on British Carmels are the British Carmels themselves. I don't think it's good to take community news from anyone other than the sisters in the community, just for reliability's sake.

Edited May 20, 2011 by beatitude