We Are All Sinners?

[infinitelord1]

Nobody has anything on this topic?

[infinitelord1]

I have to admit...this is another let down for me. Usually there is a logical answer to my questions. But it seems like people who think this way (protestants) have good reason to since everyone seems stumped here on Phatmass by this.

Edited May 26, 2011 by infinitelord1

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1306436272' post='2246281']
I have to admit...this is another let down for me. Usually there is a logical answer to my questions. But it seems like people who think this way (protestants) have good reason to since everyone seems stumped here on Phatmass by this.
[/quote]


Fine

verse by verse.



1--- at worse irrelevent, before Christ there are no chirstians, no blood atonement, nothing, that Death Reigned over even those that did not sin is obvious, ALL had origional sin, and all died. ( of course several people in the old testement didn't die, but that is another matter.


2. & 3 In context this is a exhortation to not act in a wicked manner, and attempt to purify oneself and be holy. To love ones neighbor and not hate them. Every line of scripture cannot be pulled out and flayed as a single line. Next time you are having a discussion with one of these Protetstants ask them if thier women cover their head and KEEP SILENT in church. If not, then according to thier logic they are not Christian.


4, there are obviously translational issues here.. .this is the current translation from the New american bible, and the verses around it, that show it is not to be taken as they are taking it.

[quote]If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
17
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.
18
We know that no one begotten by God sins; but the one begotten by God he protects, and the evil one cannot touch him.
19
We know that we belong to God, and the whole world is under the power of the evil one. [/quote]

Now John is telling people to pray for thier brother who sins, their fellow Chirstian is sinning and they should pray for Him.... This again is an injunction to live a good and holy life and to reject Satan, to embrace the Lord and reject the world where the devil rules.

5. the third letter of John is a particular letter to a particular individual about a partcular issue, this is not to say that it does not have universal meaning, but its meaning must be taken as a whole, I mean its only 15 lines, it isn't hard to view it in context. Gius s being warned about Diotrephes, and told not to follow Diotrephes into and evil life. The letter is a warning to Guis (and to all) not to follow corrupt leaders into corruption, and to positively support Christian missionaries. Diotrephes is identified as evil and Guiss is being warned to distance himself from Diotrephes, and his ways.



IN general the Bible shouldnot be seen as a collection of one liners. It is inerrent, but it can easily be turned into error by those who would pick a short line here and thier to justify thier position.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1306456920' post='2246420']
Fine

verse by verse.



1--- at worse irrelevent, before Christ there are no chirstians, no blood atonement, nothing, that Death Reigned over even those that did not sin is obvious, ALL had origional sin, and all died. ( of course several people in the old testement didn't die, but that is another matter.


2. & 3 In context this is a exhortation to not act in a wicked manner, and attempt to purify oneself and be holy. To love ones neighbor and not hate them. Every line of scripture cannot be pulled out and flayed as a single line. Next time you are having a discussion with one of these Protetstants ask them if thier women cover their head and KEEP SILENT in church. If not, then according to thier logic they are not Christian.


4, there are obviously translational issues here.. .this is the current translation from the New american bible, and the verses around it, that show it is not to be taken as they are taking it.



Now John is telling people to pray for thier brother who sins, their fellow Chirstian is sinning and they should pray for Him.... This again is an injunction to live a good and holy life and to reject Satan, to embrace the Lord and reject the world where the devil rules.

5. the third letter of John is a particular letter to a particular individual about a partcular issue, this is not to say that it does not have universal meaning, but its meaning must be taken as a whole, I mean its only 15 lines, it isn't hard to view it in context. Gius s being warned about Diotrephes, and told not to follow Diotrephes into and evil life. The letter is a warning to Guis (and to all) not to follow corrupt leaders into corruption, and to positively support Christian missionaries. Diotrephes is identified as evil and Guiss is being warned to distance himself from Diotrephes, and his ways.



IN general the Bible shouldnot be seen as a collection of one liners. It is inerrent, but it can easily be turned into error by those who would pick a short line here and thier to justify thier position.
[/quote]


Lol...so basically give them a taste of their own medicine. Yeah I agree it could very well be a translational issue. Ive seen stuff like that before. Thanks for the input. Have a good day.

[Skinzo]

Don't play biblical hopskotch with Protestants, that's their game because they believe Scripture is the ultimate authority. One can take plenty of little quotes out of context and try to use them to state something. But it all comes down to interpretation which is why Jesus left us a living Magisterium.
That's why Protestantism consists of so many thousands of distinct sects, it is hard for them to agree on which interpretation is correct. Without a central authority there is no hope of unity. That's the most fundamental lesson they need to learn. Don't let them try to teach you.

S.

[Santa Cruz]

Of course we all sin as we were born with the stain of original sin. However, when we sin, we are surely not following Christ and we either break our relationship with God or injure it depending upon the gravity of the sin. When I sin, really, I am not acting as a Christian. Surely I want to be a Christian, to follow Christ but when I sin, I am being disobedient and am turning from God. I renew my relationship with God by Confession and penance. Yes, Christians do sin, just as all human beings. However, in the act of committing sin, a person is not following Christ and therefore not 'being' Christian. Regardless, we remain children of God but if we are disobedient, not acting as Christians, than we surely cannot be called or recognized as followers of Christ.

So, yes Christians sin and when they do, they are not acting as Christians however because of the infinite love and mercy of God, we are given the grace to turn from our sin back to Christ and to follow Him again and again and again...Do we want to sin? No! But we have a proclivity to sin as a result of the fall in the garden.

[quote]
[b]Romans 7:14-25 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)[/b]
[sup]14[/sup]For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin.

[sup]15[/sup]For that which I work, I understand not. For I do not that good which I will; but the evil which I hate, that I do.

[sup]16[/sup]If then I do that which I will not, I consent to the law, that it is good.

[sup]17[/sup]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

[sup]18[/sup]For I know that there dwelleth not in me, that is to say, in my flesh, that which is good. For to will, is present with me; but to accomplish that which is good, I find not.

[sup]19[/sup]For the good which I will, I do not; but the evil which I will not, that I do.

[sup]20[/sup]Now if I do that which I will not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

[sup]21[/sup]I find then a law, that when I have a will to do good, evil is present with me.

[sup]22[/sup]For I am delighted with the law of God, according to the inward man:

[sup]23[/sup]But I see another law in my members, fighting against the law of my mind, and captivating me in the law of sin, that is in my members.

[sup]24[/sup]Unhappy man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

[sup]25[/sup]The grace of God, by Jesus Christ our Lord. Therefore, I myself, with the mind serve the law of God; but with the flesh, the law of sin.



[/quote]

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Skinzo' timestamp='1306544406' post='2246930']
Don't play biblical hopskotch with Protestants, that's their game because they believe Scripture is the ultimate authority. One can take plenty of little quotes out of context and try to use them to state something. But it all comes down to interpretation which is why Jesus left us a living Magisterium.
That's why Protestantism consists of so many thousands of distinct sects, it is hard for them to agree on which interpretation is correct. Without a central authority there is no hope of unity. That's the most fundamental lesson they need to learn. Don't let them try to teach you.

S.
[/quote]


I think what you are saying here is very very important. All Catholics should know not to allow Protestants to teach them. Yet a lot of Protestants consist of Ex-Catholics who were ignorant about why Catholics believe what they believe. So right on! Don't let Protestants teach you or try to pull you into their beliefs!!!!!

38000 different sects to be exact.

Edited May 28, 2011 by infinitelord1