Communicating With Religious Communities

[Chiara Francesco]

I do think some communities don't answer if you are not suitable - age, previously married, etc. There is one community that at least 2-3 PMers entered - young ones - who seem to get pretty fast responses. But when I emailed them 3 times to their posted email address and then 2 times to a private email address that one of the last PMers to enter was kind of enough to give me before she left when I asked her about why she thought they wouldn't answer any communication with them from me - AND after 2 snail mail letters! These emails and letters were well spaced apart. I did wait thinking like some, they are busy or email got lost, etc. But after 5 emails AND 2 snail mail letters that did not come back in the mail with a bad address or something?

This no response is not this community but a few others - when others ARE getting responses is not right, as nunsense stated.

But I do know some have problems or are busy or whatever and I do not expect an instant answer and maybe not even in a few days. But when weeks and months go by with no word or even with a response is hard to wait for!

Many orders previously mentioned isn't for us over the vocation age. I have no kids but am older - mid-late 40s. The old and silly "age" thing often kicks in for the US orders.

I do know the Carmelites of the Divine Heart of Jesus do not want older, previously married (maybe, forget) but definitely not if you have had kids. I have written the various provinces (if that is the right word) all all responded with this answer. As did a friend of mine who wrote them.

Many Poor Clare Colettines answer quickly and keep writing as needed. The Summit Dominicans invited me for a visit so to the other poster who wanted to write but said they were too old may be wrong - writ them! They did say that a visit is not a promise of anything - as this is true for ALL community first visits that is fine. It may be based after pray and discussion (like other orders) if they invite you and then if they feel you have a Dominican vocation they would extend an aspirancy stay and if all goes well on both sides if you entered.

But I do give all orders the benefit of the doubt until it gets into many unanswered emails and snail mail - then it is a case of you are unsuitable and they won't take the time to answer or you are unsuitable and they feel too bad to write and upset you or break your heart or something.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Chiara Francesco' timestamp='1305749585' post='2243298']
I do think some communities don't answer if you are not suitable - age, previously married, etc. There is one community that at least 2-3 PMers entered - young ones - who seem to get pretty fast responses. But when I emailed them 3 times to their posted email address and then 2 times to a private email address that one of the last PMers to enter was kind of enough to give me before she left when I asked her about why she thought they wouldn't answer any communication with them from me - AND after 2 snail mail letters! These emails and letters were well spaced apart. I did wait thinking like some, they are busy or email got lost, etc. But after 5 emails AND 2 snail mail letters that did not come back in the mail with a bad address or something?

This no response is not this community but a few others - when others ARE getting responses is not right, as nunsense stated.

But I do know some have problems or are busy or whatever and I do not expect an instant answer and maybe not even in a few days. But when weeks and months go by with no word or even with a response is hard to wait for!

Many orders previously mentioned isn't for us over the vocation age. I have no kids but am older - mid-late 40s. The old and silly "age" thing often kicks in for the US orders.

[b]I do know the Carmelites of the Divine Heart of Jesus do not want older, previously married (maybe, forget) but definitely not if you have had kids. I have written the various provinces (if that is the right word) all all responded with this answer. As did a friend of mine who wrote them. [/b]

Many Poor Clare Colettines answer quickly and keep writing as needed. The Summit Dominicans invited me for a visit so to the other poster who wanted to write but said they were too old may be wrong - writ them! They did say that a visit is not a promise of anything - as this is true for ALL community first visits that is fine. It may be based after pray and discussion (like other orders) if they invite you and then if they feel you have a Dominican vocation they would extend an aspirancy stay and if all goes well on both sides if you entered.

But I do give all orders the benefit of the doubt until it gets into many unanswered emails and snail mail - then it is a case of you are unsuitable and they won't take the time to answer or you are unsuitable and they feel too bad to write and upset you or break your heart or something.
[/quote]

I'm sorry to hear about that. I love the Carmelite DCJ even though I discerned that they are not the order for me. I wonder why they are not more open to older women? If they were open to accepting me with my depression history, why wouldn't they accept someone over the age limit? Oh, well. It's not for us to question, I guess, but nonetheless, it is hard when an order turns you down over something you cannot control. I've had many turn me down because of the depression factor, but I am doing MUCH better than I ever was in the past.

I still need to learn to let go and let God, so to speak. He closes doors when we least expect it, but He opens a window somewhere else. Keep looking for that window!

[bmb144]

I agree with Yaatee. If there is something in the way, it has to be brought up and spoken about openly. In my experience I have found that as a convert, when some communities I have been speaking with are told that I did step away from the church for a while, well they are not ok with that and that is fine.

For me, that time away was far more important than I realised and I would not have learned certain lessons without it. Also the counselling i had was equally as important. You can't be raised by a parent with the difficulties my mum has and expect to be ok, its simply not possible, so that had to be fixed and while I can make it sound fairly simple now, I can tell ya, it wasn't.

As to the communities out here in Australia...well, I have wondered why they don't seem to attract enquirers as much as USA/UK communities do and up until last night I did a lot of head scratching on that point. I'm currently reading "Come & follow me by Fr Stefano M. Manelli, FI" and last night I read this on page 79-

[i"]One can say without hesitation that prayer is the mother of vocations. Every other means, every other device, all other resourcefulness and effort to obtain vocations, are not enough, nor can they ever replace prayer, the true mother of every vocation.....One can also say without hesitation that where one finds vocations, they are a sign that there has been prayer; whereas where there are no vocations, it is a sign that prayer is lacking or there is not enough prayer"[/i]

Maybe he's right, I don't know but all I can do is pray, follow Christ and keep my own vocation alive while I wait.

[Cherie]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1305727474' post='2243175']
Every single other Order I've ever contacted returned with a message. But the SsEW have been letting me wait now just going over a month. It drives me crazy not knowing the reason why. I gave my email in the letter, too, so they could let me know what's up... Oh, and I'm still waiting for the Pauline Sisters to reply to a question, and a second question to the Alma Sisters... I'm not discerning the latter orders, but I had some questions.
[/quote]

At least with the SsEW, I know "snail mail" isn't the best way to contact. The Vocation Directress is also the Sister who schedules the retreats (among other things!), and I know from experience she gets TONS -- and tons and TONS! -- of mail [i]on a daily basis.[/i] Sometimes, because she is so busy, she doesn't open her mail for a while.

If you haven't already, I'd suggest writing an e-mail! You'd get a much faster reply!

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1305809270' post='2243554']
At least with the SsEW, I know "snail mail" isn't the best way to contact. The Vocation Directress is also the Sister who schedules the retreats (among other things!), and I know from experience she gets TONS -- and tons and TONS! -- of mail [i]on a daily basis.[/i] Sometimes, because she is so busy, she doesn't open her mail for a while.

If you haven't already, I'd suggest writing an e-mail! You'd get a much faster reply!
[/quote]

It's so great having insider knowledge. I do wish I knew this when I was trying to contact them at first.... I can still contact them

Do they do individual retreats Cherie?

[BigJon16]

So far in my descernment I've only really contacted one religious order; The Brothers of the Sacred Heart.

Their vocations director contacted me right back right away, and gave me his cell phone number if I wanted to talk to him. I think it was a pretty cool thing to do. It helps me to feel that they are definately open to new "recruits" .

Other than that I've only contacted Brothers from diffferent communities/orders, one from the Legionerries of Christ, and another from a CFR friary in NYC. But i never contacted their orders's vocations director directly.

I'm sure I will have much more experience with this in the future.

[Cherie]

[quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1305809521' post='2243555']
Do they do individual retreats Cherie?
[/quote]

For a vocation retreat, or just in general?

In general, sometimes they will accommodate people who would like to make a private retreat. You'd have to contact them and they would work something out, if possible.

For a vocation retreat, they encourage you to come on one of their weekend retreats, because not only is it a good opportunity for you to attend a retreat (because we can all use spiritual refreshment!) but it gives you a great opportunity to see the Sisters and their apostolate "in action," so-to-speak. Sometimes they allow the vocation retreatant to stay a day or two before or after the retreat (because sometimes it works out best for traveling purposes!) and that's a little added "exposure" to the Sisters, if you will. It's great because even on the weekend retreats, (usually you'll be there before the retreat actually starts) the Sisters allow the vocation visitor to eat with them, pray with them, and you get to help prepare for the retreat with them. My FAVORITE retreat for vocation visitors is the Mother/daughter retreat. You get to see so many facets of the Sisters' work in that one weekend, and it's just a BLAST all the way around!!!

[Sarah147]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1305733012' post='2243231']
I didn't even think about the possibility of damage to the post office. Perhaps you should shoot them a quick email to Sr. Louise and ask if she received the letter? You don't have to go into detail (I wouldn't want you to disobey your SD), but it might help put your mind at ease.

I sincerely doubt that they discovered you on Phatmass. As Cherie said before, they don't have free access to the internet, so I think you can rest assured that they aren't judging you based on what you write here.
[/quote]





[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1305809270' post='2243554']
At least with the SsEW, I know "snail mail" isn't the best way to contact. The Vocation Directress is also the Sister who schedules the retreats (among other things!), and I know from experience she gets TONS -- and tons and TONS! -- of mail [i]on a daily basis.[/i] Sometimes, because she is so busy, she doesn't open her mail for a while.

If you haven't already, I'd suggest writing an e-mail! You'd get a much faster reply!
[/quote]


Thank you for the encouragement; it just sounds like she is very busy and that snail mail can be delayed very easily.

I will definately email her as soon as I can give her the dates I'm available. There's no point in troubling her if I have to stall her with dates later on. I rather just have it all together and be less trouble. This will teach me to use email in the future...

Edited May 21, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1305999493' post='2244222']
Thank you for the encouragement; it just sounds like she is very busy and that snail mail can be delayed very easily.

I will definately email her as soon as I can give her the dates I'm available. There's no point in troubling her if I have to stall her with dates later on. I rather just have it all together and be less trouble. This will teach me to use email in the future...
[/quote]

I wouldn't worry about waiting to give dates. I emailed her even though I know I'm not going to be able to get there soon either. She answered some of my questions and we became acquainted. She is really sweet, too.

[Digitaldame]

May I comment from the point of view of the prioress of a small community? We do try to respond promptly to emails and letters but we can get up to 200 emails a day on various subjects and we have only 2 people to answer them. I've often found people fail to take that into account and we can get very irate follow-ups which make one wonder why people wrote in the first place. Replies to vocation enquiries, in particular, can't just be rattled off. They have to be prayed and thought about. It is not unusual for us to get two or three enquiries at a time, which means a large chunk out of an already full day. Add to that some very serious and complicated 'prayer requests' and academic enquiries from research students, and it may be easier for you to see why some communities may need longer to reply than others.

Business correspondence can be time-consuming and can't always be put off. For example, we have just been doing some complicated legal work which has devoured hours of my time and meant I couldn't do other things. We also have an online presence which in itself generates correspondence (we regard that as an important part of Benedictine hospitality but it does make demands on the community). I'm sure other communities could say the same, especially the smaller and poorer ones. Larger/richer communities have more resources at their disposal.

I've posted elsewhere in Phatmass some suggestions about good and bad times to contact communities. For example, many cloistered communities try to keep Lent and Advent as times of greater recollection; the great feasts usually mean less rather than more time available for correspondence, and so on. If you don't get a reply, I'd always suggest the simple approach: did you receive my email? (they can go astray); when would be a good time to write? No one is deliberately trying to be rude: that would be unChristian.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Digitaldame' timestamp='1306081304' post='2244479']
May I comment from the point of view of the prioress of a small community? We do try to respond promptly to emails and letters but we can get up to 200 emails a day on various subjects and we have only 2 people to answer them. I've often found people fail to take that into account and we can get very irate follow-ups which make one wonder why people wrote in the first place. Replies to vocation enquiries, in particular, can't just be rattled off. They have to be prayed and thought about. It is not unusual for us to get two or three enquiries at a time, which means a large chunk out of an already full day. Add to that some very serious and complicated 'prayer requests' and academic enquiries from research students, and it may be easier for you to see why some communities may need longer to reply than others.

Business correspondence can be time-consuming and can't always be put off. For example, we have just been doing some complicated legal work which has devoured hours of my time and meant I couldn't do other things. We also have an online presence which in itself generates correspondence (we regard that as an important part of Benedictine hospitality but it does make demands on the community). I'm sure other communities could say the same, especially the smaller and poorer ones. Larger/richer communities have more resources at their disposal.

I've posted elsewhere in Phatmass some suggestions about good and bad times to contact communities. For example, many cloistered communities try to keep Lent and Advent as times of greater recollection; the great feasts usually mean less rather than more time available for correspondence, and so on. If you don't get a reply, I'd always suggest the simple approach: did you receive my email? (they can go astray); when would be a good time to write? No one is deliberately trying to be rude: that would be unChristian.
[/quote]

Well said, and thank you!

[Yaatee]

[quote name='Digitaldame' timestamp='1306081304' post='2244479']
...(excerpt)

I've posted elsewhere in Phatmass some suggestions about good and bad times to contact communities. For example, many cloistered communities try to keep Lent and Advent as times of greater recollection; the great feasts usually mean less rather than more time available for correspondence, and so on. If you don't get a reply, I'd always suggest the simple approach: did you receive my email? (they can go astray); when would be a good time to write? No one is deliberately trying to be rude: that would be unChristian.
[/quote]

...and yet it appears to happen, as a number have described here.

Faced with such an onslaught of emails, snail mail, solicitations, requests for prayer, etc., each house must decide the best way to respond---but they must decide. They should select various appropriate ways to respond and act on them. Not responding at all is really not adequate, and yet appears to happen, and happens fairly often. If a house frequently receives inquiries from unsuitable candidates, usually overage, it is sufficient to state in a printed form, that it has found that candidates beyond -----age do not persevere, and are not considered.

....I have a question of discerners. What do you think about including a small high quality close-up [i]photo[/i] with your inquiry, especially if you're overage? Most unmarried women look far younger than their stated age, I have observed, and a photo shows that you don't have horns! You can sign it on the back, with, 'taken on -----date". Good idea? Bad idea?

[Chiara Francesco]

[quote name='Digitaldame' timestamp='1306081304' post='2244479']
May I comment from the point of view of the prioress of a small community? We do try to respond promptly to emails and letters but we can get up to 200 emails a day on various subjects and we have only 2 people to answer them. I've often found people fail to take that into account and we can get very irate follow-ups which make one wonder why people wrote in the first place. Replies to vocation enquiries, in particular, can't just be rattled off. They have to be prayed and thought about. It is not unusual for us to get two or three enquiries at a time, which means a large chunk out of an already full day. Add to that some very serious and complicated 'prayer requests' and academic enquiries from research students, and it may be easier for you to see why some communities may need longer to reply than others.

Business correspondence can be time-consuming and can't always be put off. For example, we have just been doing some complicated legal work which has devoured hours of my time and meant I couldn't do other things. We also have an online presence which in itself generates correspondence (we regard that as an important part of Benedictine hospitality but it does make demands on the community). I'm sure other communities could say the same, especially the smaller and poorer ones. Larger/richer communities have more resources at their disposal.

I've posted elsewhere in Phatmass some suggestions about good and bad times to contact communities. For example, many cloistered communities try to keep Lent and Advent as times of greater recollection; the great feasts usually mean less rather than more time available for correspondence, and so on. If you don't get a reply, I'd always suggest the simple approach: did you receive my email? (they can go astray); when would be a good time to write? No one is deliberately trying to be rude: that would be unChristian.
[/quote]

Well said I agree. In my early post where I wrote about 5 emails and 2 snail mails to a community who never answered either - this was over a YEAR's worth of time! Surely in a quick email or note somewhere in a year's time is possible! I did wait months in between each communication.

But I do agree communities, especially small ones are busy - I have visited some and do know this. It's just the few who never answer back, and there are a few out there. But I do try to give them the benefit of the doubt that "something came up or happened" but still it is hard to figure them out.

I've also had 2 sad and baffling experiences with 2 different communities where for both of them we exchanged many great emails and even wonderful phone conversations and all of a sudden nothing! No correspondence, no return phone calls and then for one I wrote and asked if all was ok, if they were busy that's fine etc and they wrote a very short and cold-ish email that they were busy and that this sister would write when they could. So I waited about 3 months after no contact and they never answered me - to this day, about 2 yrs later.

The 2nd community was about the same except when I had a visit dates picked out, I wrote to them asking some question and got a very short, unfriendly email. And this sister who was the Mother, was so great on the phone and by email! I had asked something like the amount of days for the length of stay as I didn't see it in prior emails and I got "It was already stated in a previous email." That was it. Hurtful after so many warm and loving emails and phone talks with her! Then where as many orders keep in touch and will check in with you a few days or week before your visit day to make sure all is well and that you are still coming, they never did.

But, thank God, the good communities who try and do answer when they can (even if you are not an acceptable candidate to them) do outweigh the ones who are like this and either don't answer or act strange!

[Yaatee]

[quote name='Chiara Francesco' timestamp='1306100034' post='2244560']
Well said I agree. In my early post where I wrote about 5 emails and 2 snail mails to a community who never answered either - this was over a YEAR's worth of time! Surely in a quick email or note somewhere in a year's time is possible! I did wait months in between each communication.

But I do agree communities, especially small ones are busy - I have visited some and do know this. It's just the few who never answer back, and there are a few out there. But I do try to give them the benefit of the doubt that "something came up or happened" but still it is hard to figure them out.

I've also had 2 sad and baffling experiences with 2 different communities where for both of them we exchanged many great emails and even wonderful phone conversations and all of a sudden nothing! No correspondence, no return phone calls and then for one I wrote and asked if all was ok, if they were busy that's fine etc and they wrote a very short and cold-ish email that they were busy and that this sister would write when they could. So I waited about 3 months after no contact and they never answered me - to this day, about 2 yrs later.

The 2nd community was about the same except when I had a visit dates picked out, I wrote to them asking some question and got a very short, unfriendly email. And this sister who was the Mother, was so great on the phone and by email! I had asked something like the amount of days for the length of stay as I didn't see it in prior emails and I got "It was already stated in a previous email." That was it. Hurtful after so many warm and loving emails and phone talks with her! Then where as many orders keep in touch and will check in with you a few days or week before your visit day to make sure all is well and that you are still coming, they never did.

But, thank God, the good communities who try and do answer when they can (even if you are not an acceptable candidate to them) do outweigh the ones who are like this and either don't answer or act strange!
[/quote]

Very, very difficult. You are well rid of communities that act in such an inconsistent way. It would be very hard, like dating some nice man who drops you like a cold potato.

Fortunately, you have other good choices.

[AccountDeleted]

Digitaldame - of course, most of us discerners understand that communities are busy - a nun's horarium is very full even without extraordinary things happening, which do every day. And yes, some communities receive hundreds of emails and must prioritise these as well as pray over them.

I think what we are discussing here however, is the communities who fail to respond at all or who have a really bad record of communication of any kind, or who stopped responding suddenly and without warning. These things are unkind and unChristian, even if they don't mean to be. Perhaps, as someone posted on here before, they don't want to hurt feelings by rejecting a person, but it hurts more never to have any response at all, or to suddenly be cut off without explanation.

I personally left two hand-written letters at one Carmel in the US, driving a long distance to hand deliver them. I included a photo, phone numbers, email contact and street address. When I had no response after several weeks from the first letter, I drove this distance again and left another letter at the turn. I never heard back from this community at all -- that was three years ago, so I think they have had plenty of time to pray about it and respond, if they were going to do the Christian thing. Even a quick note saying they were praying for me would have been nice!

The other thing that I do wonder about is what you refer to as the 'online presence' factor. I do accept that perhaps this is considered a necessary part of a community's apostolate - but it will also be instrumental in attracting vocations in this day and age, and although blogs and tweets and FB can be delayed without personally affecting others, email equiries have a real live human being at the other end, who may have had to work very hard to find the courage to even write in the first place and is living in hope/fear/ and expectation of what the reply might be! It is very easy with online communication to dissociate oneself from others and forget that they are not just digital data but people with real human feelings!

I don't think it is simply a matter of impatience either, because most of us know that there are times of less correspondence (or none) during Advent and Lent, and I'm sure we try to be sensitive to the needs of the community as well, but let's face it, not all communities are sensitive to the needs of discerners. This isn't the day of St Benedict, when the applicant is left sitting outside the monastery forever to test their vocation... or it shouldn't be. In St B's day, there was one Church and those who wanted to enter a monastery might have been doing so simply because they wanted a place to live and sleep and eat or because they had no other option, so he had to test them. Today, the testing starts taking place long before one ever gets near the monastery! There are so many options for a person in this world today, and to even consider a religious vocation takes great courage. The sheer effort of will to actually approach communities, even if it turns out that one really isn't called to religious life, requires a leap of faith and trust in God that isn't found in doing anything else because it goes against everything our society preaches today with its attitude of 'self, self, self'.

Of course, I am writing from the perspective of the discerner, and this skews my viewpoint to the receiver's end, not the senders. If I were the one at the other end of the communication chain, perhaps I would also make different decisions but having been in positions of great authority and influence (and very busy) when I worked in the corporate and academic world, I learned that the busiest person has to balance a focus of work vs people. Focusing too much on the work, neglects the people, and vice versa. It's all about prioritising and organisation and certainly not all communities have procedures in place to deal with their vocation enquiries in a timely and courteous manner. Perhaps vocation enquiries need to be regarded as part of the work of the community, to ensure a future?

So, yes, sometimes we do wonder if communities are being truly Christian or not. When the children wanted to come to Jesus and the Apostles thought He was too busy (and important) to be bothered with such as these, He chastised them because He always put people first and He knew what was really important. Personally, I think that there would be less communities in danger of closure if they were more responsive to the needs of discerners. Word of mouth is a powerful thing and most of us on here have either been in community already or have been discerning for a long time - and in this digital age, we share information about communities with each other. When someone says they have been badly treated by a particular community, then others think about this. We all know that what works for one isn't the same as for another, and also that we all have different expeperiences with the same community, but a lot of private emails get exchanged between discerners as a source of information. Those communities that are particularly sensitive to the needs of discerners are widely praised and this can make one consider a possible vocation with that community.

I guess what I'm trying to say in my very longed-winded way (as usual), is that we are human beings, with human feelings. Speaking for myself, I try to use each experience as a way to come closer to God and to try to accept His will but sometimes I say to myself, I wonder what Jesus would have thought of that, or how He would have responded if I had approached Him directly? Interesting thought.

Edited May 23, 2011 by nunsense