stevil Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1306360650' post='2245950'] Your face terrifies me. I think we should prohibit your face in public. [/quote] Terrifies me too. I have proposed a ban on mirrors, but it didn't fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1306362543' post='2245960'] I would read stevil's about me section, it pretty much answers your question [/quote] It sounds like you did read his about me section and that it didn't answer Don John's question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1306371688' post='2246020'] It sounds like you did read his about me section and that it didn't answer Don John's question. [/quote] i'm lazy probably shoulda copy+pasted it here for him *sigh* alright. Also the question wasn't directed at me, and its not something that i would claim to be very knowledgeable about at all. but here is stevil's about me page: [quote][color=#595959][font=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=4]What's an Agnostic Atheist?[/size][/font][/color][color=#595959][font=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=4] [b]Atheist means[/b] "lack of belief in god/s" which is different from "belief that there are no god/s". A weak Atheist or [b]Agnostic Atheist[/b] holds the stance that they lack a belief with regards to god/s. A strong Atheist has a belief that there are definately no gods. [b]Agnostic is[/b] a different definition. It is a claim with regards to knowledge. [url="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic"][color=#B4453B]Dictionary.reference.com - Agnostic[/color][/url] "a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience." I myself am a weak Atheist (Agnostic Atheist) I simply haven't seen enough convincing proof for or against the existence of gods. However with this stance I live my life as if there is no god and hence I do not follow any scripture, I have no fear of hell and no expectation of an eternal after life. By my thinking a person could be Agnostic but also either an Atheist or a Theist. Saying that one has a belief in something is almost an admission there there aren't solid facts. e.g. One doesn't say I believe in rocks. So a Strong Atheists could admit that they don't have any proof but also hold a belief that god doesn't exist and the flipside a Theist could admit that they don't have any proof but also hold a belief that god does exist. Weak Atheists tend to be Agnostic also. I mean, if they thought that there was knowledge one way or another then they would be a Theist or a Strong Atheist. I use the term Agnostic Atheist as a world view for myself because it is less common for a person to know what weak Atheism means. I have seen a definition of Atheist that says that they hold that there are no gods [url="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism"][color=#B4453B]Dictionary.reference.com - Atheism[/color][/url] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#595959][font=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=4]The Dictionary.reference site shows both definitions. So it can be confusing and often is. I would say that the majority of Atheists don't even know that they are Atheists. The term Atheist does not have much recognition as noone is promoting it. An Atheist stance tends to be very much a passive stance, unless of course you meet up with a Troll on the Internet.[/size][/font][/color][/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1306372076' post='2246024'] i'm lazy probably shoulda copy+pasted it here for him *sigh* alright. Also the question wasn't directed at me, and its not something that i would claim to be very knowledgeable about at all. but here is stevil's about me page: [/quote] Wow thats a really long way of saying your an agnostic. This issue is way to far from the topic to deal with that now. I will have to start a thread abou this later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Vatican II recognizes freedom of religion as a human right. It is true that some bishops didn't want to write that in there explicitly, but it was necessary to defend the Church behind the iron curtain. Certainly, the Church has repeated that statement many times since it was written. Certainly, we believe that the Catholic faith is True. But we don't think that conversion by the sword or forcing people to go along with it is a good idea. Oh, and sure, there was 'democracy' during the Middle Ages. It consisted of the people in charge making decisions, and then the people acclaiming the announcement of the next leader when it was made. Not that that's all that different from the modern systems, but still. I know that insurance against theft costs extra on most policies, but how expensive it is depends a [i]lot[/i] on what state you are in and (of course) who you are. Even as a young driver, I could get everything (and I do mean [i]everything[/i] - full tort) for like $600/year. Woohoo for growing up in rural PA and driving a junker! I've had insurance companies buy back two vehicles from me (one for theft, one for a wreck), and in both cases they paid me blue book value - which was equal or more than what I had paid for the car in the first place. So, it worked for me. (And no, my rates didn't go up.) If it's not an option for you, that's too bad. Even if the car is no longer drivable, you can (around here) usually get someone to tow it away for you for $300-$500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 Blessed Pius IX Syllubus of Errors --- Solemly defined as errors 15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. -- Allocution "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862; Damnatio "Multiplices inter," June 10, 1851. 24. The Church has not the power of using force, nor has she any temporal power, direct or indirect. -- Apostolic Letter "Ad Apostolicae," Aug. 22, 1851 55. The Church ought to be separated from the .State, and the State from the Church. -- Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852. The Declaration on Religious Freedom only demands that people be free in ... "that no one is to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his own beliefs, whether privately or publicly, whether alone or in association with others, within due limits." "Therefore it leaves untouched traditional Catholic doctrine on the moral duty of men and societies toward the true religion and toward the one Church of Christ." THis is not the same thing at all as being able to act in a manner consistant with ones own belief, and it reaffirms the duty of societies, as a whole, to profess the One True Religion. Your understanding of the Middle Ages is terribly insufficent, I recomend "Those Terrible Middle Ages" by Regine Pernoud, or "Women in the Age of Cathedrals" by the same author. Democracy was much more common in the Medieval period than is commonly acknowledged by the modernist who named it --- the middle ages, as if it was the sad time of stagnation between the Glorious Ancient world, and the Magnificent Rennisance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 74. Get your own tauntaun! - "[i]Imperium Tergum Ferit[/i]," May. 12, 1905 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 I think that there is a fundemental misunderstanding of Freedom to not be cohersed to act in a certian way, which the Church has not ever demanded, and the freedom to act in what ever way you wish, which is contray to Church teaching. One is free to believe whatever you want, one is not free to teach things contray to the Faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 Regardless, this is a far cry from the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1306378548' post='2246053'] Wow thats a really long way of saying your an agnostic. [/quote] No, Agnostic is a different matter. It's all there in my About Me and in the links. Sorry for going off topic, but I think it is an important matter as there are common misconceptions. Agnostic means that you recognise that there is no knowledge with regards to god/s. It does not indicate whether you believe there is a god, believe there is no god or simply lack a belief in gods. You could be an Agnostic Theist or an Agnostic Atheist or not Agnostic at all and still be either a theist or an atheist. The distinction that you are more interested in is between Strong Atheist and Weak Atheist. Strong holds a belief that god definitely does not exist. Weak means that they don't know for certain. I am a Weak Atheist, but tending very much towards no god as that to me is the default position, I was born without knowledge or belief in god/s. I put the burden of proof onto the theory. You have a theory, nice, now show me some proof or evidence to substantiate your theory. An Atheist is very much a passive stance, although I do not believe in god/s I do not go around telling theists that they are wrong. Maybe they are right, I am yet to see evidence supporting this, but I am not them, I have not walked in their shoes, I do not have the information they have with regards to this subject. From this perspective it is very much a stance of tolerance and acceptance that others are different and hold onto different beliefs, morals and opinions. I am not in a position to say who is right and who is wrong. It is not for me to judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1306393109' post='2246138'] No, Agnostic is a different matter. It's all there in my About Me and in the links. Sorry for going off topic, but I think it is an important matter as there are common misconceptions. Agnostic means that you recognise that there is no knowledge with regards to god/s. It does not indicate whether you believe there is a god, believe there is no god or simply lack a belief in gods. You could be an Agnostic Theist or an Agnostic Atheist or not Agnostic at all and still be either a theist or an atheist. The distinction that you are more interested in is between Strong Atheist and Weak Atheist. Strong holds a belief that god definitely does not exist. Weak means that they don't know for certain. I am a Weak Atheist, but tending very much towards no god as that to me is the default position, I was born without knowledge or belief in god/s. I put the burden of proof onto the theory. You have a theory, nice, now show me some proof or evidence to substantiate your theory. An Atheist is very much a passive stance, although I do not believe in god/s I do not go around telling theists that they are wrong. Maybe they are right, I am yet to see evidence supporting this, but I am not them, I have not walked in their shoes, I do not have the information they have with regards to this subject. From this perspective it is very much a stance of tolerance and acceptance that others are different and hold onto different beliefs, morals and opinions. I am not in a position to say who is right and who is wrong. It is not for me to judge. [/quote] I understand that is your definition, and I think it is a very rational one, I have no problem accepting it in regards to you. However, it is not the common usage in the U.S. What you are refering to as a weak athiest would only be thought of as and refered to as an agnostic here, Certianly the Athiest I have known some of which have been very active in the antithiest movements here in the US have all been very insistant that an Athiest denies the existance of God, or of anything other than physical reality, they would have all defined your --Weak athiest as an agnostic. So i hope you will excuse the misunderstanding.... is this the common usage in NZ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1306393804' post='2246140'] So i hope you will excuse the misunderstanding.... is this the common usage in NZ? [/quote] I don't tend to talk much about religion to anyone in the real world. Religion is not as common in NZ as it is in America with just over a third of Kiwis stating that they do not have a religion. My lack of belief in god is a very minor part of who I am. I came to understand what the Atheist/Agnostic labels meant by joining the Happy Atheist Forum, which is mostly attended by Americans and British. It took me a couple weeks to really understand the labels, I also looked online, Wiki, Dictionary.com and other places. Atheist is not a well advertised or understood term. I do find good forums a great place to learn about stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 teh intarwebs is the real world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Sure it is I have a minor in Medieval history. I recommend R. W. Southern's 'The Making of the Middle Ages' for a solid introduction to the topic. I don't think it was a terrible time at all, and I quite enjoy learning about a different world view that would not be commonly understood today. I also don't tend to romanticize history overly much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 [img]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f324/jumanji52587/monty_python_witch-701441.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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