Don John of Austria Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1306351155' post='2245884'] I would imprison people for breaking the law and refusing to comply even when asked to many times. People carrying guns does impact me. I would be terrified to see some people with guns. I would be in great morning if some depressed kid took a gun to school and shot my children. I want a reasonably safe place to live in. [/quote] The experiance in the United States has been that the more guns are out on the street via concealed weapons the lower the violent crime rate. Every state that has legalized concealed carry has shown a decrease in violent crime.... every one. Edited May 25, 2011 by Don John of Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1306348866' post='2245867'] I love my mother dearly. Doesn't mean I must be allowed to marry her. [/quote] You are my hero. Personally, I feel if two consenting adults want to marry then that is up to them. Be it man and woman, man and man, woman and woman, mother and son, brother and sister, father and daughter, whatever it is. They are adults and they are consenting. If you love your mum and don't want to marry her then that is your choice, I don't feel it should be enforced by law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1306348946' post='2245869'] I'm so grateful our founding fathers felt otherwise. [/quote] No dude, we've already established that our government is illegitimate, don't worry about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1306351451' post='2245888'] No dude, we've already established that our government is illegitimate, don't worry about it [/quote] Illegitement does not mean without power, had the Founders declined to protect this Natural Right, we would becompletely screwed. On that score, despite our illegetiment government, I agree with Socrates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1306351389' post='2245887'] You are my hero. Personally, I feel if two consenting adults want to marry then that is up to them. Be it man and woman, man and man, woman and woman, mother and son, brother and sister, father and daughter, whatever it is. They are adults and they are consenting. If you love your mum and don't want to marry her then that is your choice, I don't feel it should be enforced by law. [/quote] Why have marriage enforced by law anyway... your an athiest, why do you give a hoot about marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote] THat Church and State should be Seperate is a formally defined error, one is not free to believe that this should be the Case. That there should be schools which are not influanced by the CHurch is a formally defined error, that marriage is regulatable by the state is a formally defined Error, That infidel soverigns have any authority over bishops or religious affairs ( ask the the diocese of Boston if the US government has claimed such a right, and enforced it power ofver the Church) has been defined as an error, freedom of religion has been condemned as an error, that the popular will has the authority to make Law, condemned as an error, that the State has the right to intrude upon or regulate the family in anyway, condemned as an error. [/quote] [quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1306340137' post='2245807'] Really? I don't see any violation of human rights there at all[/quote] You don't? What if the Muslims had the same stance as Catholic? What if they thought that freedom of religion has been condemned as an error. If they took over your country and outlawed Christianity and burned down your churches and forced you to pledge allegance to Allah. Enforced muslim teachings in all schools. Would you not feel your human rights have been violated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1306351821' post='2245892'] Why have marriage enforced by law anyway... your an athiest, why do you give a hoot about marriage. [/quote] Much like Christmas, marriage has become a cultural tradition. For me marriage is a personal commitment of people who have love and lust for each other and a sharing of that commitment with ones family and friends and formally accepted by the authority of the law of the society that we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1306352217' post='2245895'] You don't? What if the Muslims had the same stance as Catholic? What if they thought that freedom of religion has been condemned as an error. If they took over your country and outlawed Christianity and burned down your churches and forced you to pledge allegance to Allah. Enforced muslim teachings in all schools. Would you not feel your human rights have been violated? [/quote] Well thats what the Muslims do, they did it to all kinds of Christian lands, but I am supposed to say they were kind and enlightened people. I give it to the Muslims, they are commited. I don't recall posting anything about burning anyone's schools or forcing anyone to convert, that said, the Chruch has never policed what people believed, only what they taught. The Muslims absolutely police what people teach. However the simplest answer is... My religion is True, and thiers is False. You will dismiss that, but you assume that your faith (and athiesm is a faith) is True, and all others are False. Only one can be True, all others must have falsehood within them. If the Muslims are right, and we are wrong then they do no disservice to enforce their religions precepts against conversion to other Fatihs. If not, well then obviously they do. I would like to bring them all to Christ, but unlike so many people, I am not afraid to say their religion is False, it was founded upon evil and deciet and shoul be annialated from the World. A good muslim would say that Catholicism was founded by a Holy Prophet and then corrupted by evil and deciet, and that it too should be annialated from the world. They are required to tolerate Christians, that means not slaughter them for adhearing to Christainity like the Pagans and Athiest get, but they do not think Christainity is good, and would perfer all became Muslim. Both Faiths are universalist religions, conflict is inevitable. And I would never, ever have to worry about the consequences of a Muslim take over, I am not disarmed, if they could not be defeated, then me and mine would be dead, fallen in battle. Edited May 25, 2011 by Don John of Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1306353142' post='2245903'] Much like Christmas, marriage has become a cultural tradition. For me marriage is a personal commitment of people who have love and lust for each other and a sharing of that commitment with ones family and friends and formally accepted by the authority of the law of the society that we live in. [/quote] So you cannot commit to someone without the law saying you did? Doesn't NZ have no fault divorce? Isn't that commitment really a false one anyway? Can't you just get a divorce? Civil marriage performs no function at all anymore and should be abolished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) jussayin Edited May 25, 2011 by Amppax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1306353214' post='2245904'] You will dismiss that, but you assume that your faith (and athiesm is a faith) is True, and all others are False.[/quote] Atheism isn't even an "ism" An Atheist is a person who lacks a belief in any god/s There are no teachings, no scriptures, no common beliefs beyond that simple lack of belief. It doesn't incorporate any faith. I am no more an atheist than the car I drive, the neighbor's dog that I sometimes pat, the footpath that I walk on or the air that I breath. None of us understand or believe any god theories to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1306354789' post='2245912'] Atheism isn't even an "ism" An Atheist is a person who lacks a belief in any god/s There are no teachings, no scriptures, no common beliefs beyond that simple lack of belief. It doesn't incorporate any faith. I am no more an atheist than the car I drive, the neighbor's dog that I sometimes pat, the footpath that I walk on or the air that I breath. None of us understand or believe any god theories to be true. [/quote] An Atheist denies the exstance of God or any god. Unless you have proof that there is no God/gods, then that is a tenet of faith, a doctrine. Or are you an agnostic, do you claim that such knowlege is simply unknown, and perhaps unknowable, but d o not state as positive Truth, that there is no God. Edited May 25, 2011 by Don John of Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1306351155' post='2245884'] I would imprison people for breaking the law and refusing to comply even when asked to many times. People carrying guns does impact me. I would be terrified to see some people with guns. I would be in great morning if some depressed kid took a gun to school and shot my children. I want a reasonably safe place to live in. [/quote] Your fear is not my problem. A great many people are terrified of dogs. Shall we prohibit dogs in public? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1306360118' post='2245948'] Your fear is not my problem. A great many people are terrified of dogs. Shall we prohibit dogs in public? [/quote] Your face terrifies me. I think we should prohibit your face in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 [quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1306355134' post='2245917'] An Atheist denies the exstance of God or any god. Unless you have proof that there is no God/gods, then that is a tenet of faith, a doctrine. Or are you an agnostic, do you claim that such knowlege is simply unknown, and perhaps unknowable, but d o not state as positive Truth, that there is no God. [/quote] I would read stevil's about me section, it pretty much answers your question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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