Religion From An Evolutionary Perspective

[Socrates]

[quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1308775283' post='2257378']
Thing is I see what you mean. The constant falling back onto arguments I already think I've resolved such as evolution/human nature and communism constantly show that this is going nowhere. But now I feel locked in discussion and obligated to keep answering the same thing lest I look like a troll or something of that sort.

No wonder some like rigid systems so much...
[/quote]
No one's forcing you to continue posting in this thread, but you yourself are constantly rehashing the same stuff over and over again, even though it remains as un-compelling to me as when first stated. I agree this discussion has probably run its course. Time to shake the proverbial dust from my sandals and move on.

God bless.

[stevil]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1308850088' post='2257731']
Capitalizing "God: when speaking of Him as a Person has always been standard practice in the English language, and the only people who don't follow that rule are those pushing a particular ideology.
I still find it a silly and childish practice.
[/quote]
I disagree with this, English grammar dictates that names, acronyms and the first letter of sentences are capitalised. The term god is not a name, neither is he or him. I feel Christians capitalise either because their scripture does and so they do or because they feel capitalising makes the word more important. As a non Christian I do not follow scripture as my grammar authority and I do not find the term god or he, him as special when talking about gods or a particular god. I simply follow English grammar as best as I know.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='stevil' timestamp='1308856323' post='2257764']
I disagree with this, English grammar dictates that names, acronyms and the first letter of sentences are capitalised. The term god is not a name, neither is he or him. I feel Christians capitalise either because their scripture does and so they do or because they feel capitalising makes the word more important. As a non Christian I do not follow scripture as my grammar authority and I do not find the term god or he, him as special when talking about gods or a particular god. I simply follow English grammar as best as I know.
[/quote]

God is a proper noun, and should be capitalized.

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CapitalizingGod

[xSilverPhinx]

[quote name='stevil' timestamp='1308856323' post='2257764']
I disagree with this, English grammar dictates that names, acronyms and the first letter of sentences are capitalised. The term god is not a name, neither is he or him. I feel Christians capitalise either because their scripture does and so they do or because they feel capitalising makes the word more important. As a non Christian I do not follow scripture as my grammar authority and I do not find the term god or he, him as special when talking about gods or a particular god. I simply follow English grammar as best as I know.
[/quote]

Me too.

Actually I feel more inclined to write it as [b]"[/b]god[b]"[/b], because not only do I think it's a concept but one without any proper meaning. I think that the religious might feel I'm necessarily speaking about their god in particular when I write the word normally, which also leads to a few misunderstandings. I've heard quite few times: but you must believe in god if you're always talking about him!

Capitalising it means that you give it a meaning beyond a vague word and as an atheist, I see no reason to.

Would you guys say the God Thor? Or the god Thor? Just out of curiousity...

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1308861031' post='2257785']Me too.

Actually I feel more inclined to write it as [b]"[/b]god[b]"[/b], because not only do I think it's a concept but one without any proper meaning. I think that the religious might feel I'm necessarily speaking about their god in particular when I write the word normally, which also leads to a few misunderstandings. I've heard quite few times: but you must believe in god if you're always talking about him!

Capitalising it means that you give it a meaning beyond a vague word and as an atheist, I see no reason to.

Would you guys say the God Thor? Or the god Thor? Just out of curiousity...[/quote]It's an old rule. Clearly English changes.

[xSilverPhinx]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1308863313' post='2257797']
It's an old rule. Clearly English changes.
[/quote]

lol The worst thing is that it does, but so does the meaning of the "god" word in particular.

Maybe an ancient Greek would find it childish that most modern day people don't capitalise the "god" before Zeus?Who's to say that if there is a god or gods, that people in the future will look at the descriptions of god today and think of them just as we think (most of us at least - apparently there are still true believers around) of the ancient Greek gods?

Edited June 23, 2011 by xSilverPhinx

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1308866984' post='2257822']
lol The worst thing is that it does, but so does the meaning of the "god" word in particular.

Maybe an ancient Greek would find it childish that most modern day people don't capitalise the "god" before Zeus?
[/quote]
Did they even have capital letters versus lowercase at that point of development in the Greek language?
I'm not sure if I'm getting Greek confused with a different language, but in the language I'm thinking about lower-case letters didn't develop until significantly later.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Nihil Obstat

[xSilverPhinx]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308867061' post='2257825']
Did they even have capital letters versus lowercase at that point of development in the Greek language?
I'm not sure if I'm getting Greek confused with a different language, but in the language I'm thinking about lower-case letters didn't develop until significantly later.
[/quote]

Good point, a quick search shows that the minuscule or lower case letters first appeared sometime after 800 AD and developed from the Byzantine minuscule script, which developed from cursive writing...

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1308867767' post='2257831']
Good point, a quick search shows that the minuscule or lower case letters first appeared sometime after 800 AD and developed from the Byzantine minuscule script, which developed from cursive writing...
[/quote]
Case is a pretty relative thing language to language. Obviously writing systems like hangul, kanji, hiragana, katakana, probably written Chinese although I don't know much about that, and I'm sure lots of others don't even have case.
Then in languages like German, every noun is capitalized. I can't imagine having to write like that.

Anyway, case is relative, so I think that the capitalization (or not) of God is going to be more a function of language and common use than on any hard rules. To me, it's most proper to capitalize God in English when referring to the Christian conception of God. I think so for two specific reasons. First is that it is used as a placeholder for a proper name (i.e. it's a title, but mostly used as a name). Second, and to me more importantly, I think it implies reverence, and to me for sure when I'm writing it causes me to be more careful about using God's name because of the respect I have for it. I would not capitalize god when referring to polytheistic gods, since in that case it's no longer being used in place of a name, and second because I don't respect those gods because, like you, I consider those ones to be false.

Conclusion: since I'm a Catholic I will always capitalize God when referring to my God, but not when referring to false gods. I think it would be more grammatically correct to capitalize God when using it as a name (whether or not you believe in the concept).

Anyway, I'm sort of just rambling because I'm bored. Not honestly interested in getting into a debate on it. You will, of course, continue to do what you like with regards to case.

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1308867767' post='2257831']Good point, a quick search shows that the minuscule or lower case letters first appeared sometime after 800 AD and developed from the Byzantine minuscule script, which developed from cursive writing...[/quote]As a rule of grammar, I suspect the reason is because the "[i]christian god[/i]" doesn't have a name and was frequently contrasted against polytheistic religions. But considering atheists are addressing the concept of "god" as a whole, within this context, it seems acceptable and understandable to me. To me it seems like an archaic rule.

[xSilverPhinx]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308868426' post='2257840']
Case is a pretty relative thing language to language. Obviously writing systems like hangul, kanji, hiragana, katakana, probably written Chinese although I don't know much about that, and I'm sure lots of others don't even have case.
Then in languages like German, every noun is capitalized. I can't imagine having to write like that.

Anyway, case is relative, so I think that the capitalization (or not) of God is going to be more a function of language and common use than on any hard rules. To me, it's most proper to capitalize God in English when referring to the Christian conception of God. I think so for two specific reasons. First is that it is used as a placeholder for a proper name (i.e. it's a title, but mostly used as a name). Second, and to me more importantly, I think it implies reverence, and to me for sure when I'm writing it causes me to be more careful about using God's name because of the respect I have for it. I would not capitalize god when referring to polytheistic gods, since in that case it's no longer being used in place of a name, and second because I don't respect those gods because, like you, I consider those ones to be false.

Conclusion: since I'm a Catholic I will always capitalize God when referring to my God, but not when referring to false gods. I think it would be more grammatically correct to capitalize God when using it as a name (whether or not you believe in the concept).

Anyway, I'm sort of just rambling because I'm bored. Not honestly interested in getting into a debate on it. You will, of course, continue to do what you like with regards to case.
[/quote]

Your explanation for why you don't capitalise the "g" for gods other than your own would be the same reason that I don't capitalise it for any. Though it can be said to refer to one as a name, it can also be said to refer to another. If I called one god [i]God[/i], then I would have to call them all [i]God[/i], since they're undifferentiated in truth value to me.

But yeah...I just thought I'd clarify that because it doesn't have to do with childishness or disrespect for gods, but more with a respect for my own views, if that makes sense.

Edited June 24, 2011 by xSilverPhinx

[stevil]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308868426' post='2257840']
Case is a pretty relative thing language to language. Obviously writing systems like hangul, kanji, hiragana, katakana, probably written Chinese although I don't know much about that, and I'm sure lots of others don't even have case.
Then in languages like German, every noun is capitalized. I can't imagine having to write like that.

Anyway, case is relative, so I think that the capitalization (or not) of God is going to be more a function of language and common use than on any hard rules. To me, it's most proper to capitalize God in English when referring to the Christian conception of God. I think so for two specific reasons. First is that it is used as a placeholder for a proper name (i.e. it's a title, but mostly used as a name). Second, and to me more importantly, I think it implies reverence, and to me for sure when I'm writing it causes me to be more careful about using God's name because of the respect I have for it. I would not capitalize god when referring to polytheistic gods, since in that case it's no longer being used in place of a name, and second because I don't respect those gods because, like you, I consider those ones to be false.

Conclusion: since I'm a Catholic I will always capitalize God when referring to my God, but not when referring to false gods. I think it would be more grammatically correct to capitalize God when using it as a name (whether or not you believe in the concept).

Anyway, I'm sort of just rambling because I'm bored. Not honestly interested in getting into a debate on it. You will, of course, continue to do what you like with regards to case.
[/quote]
I'm almost in agreeance with this.
A couple of slight differences of opinion though.
1. I thought the Christian god had a name, doesn't the bible call it YHWH?

I understand that some Christians use capital to highlight reverence, a personal reverance the author has with their belief in "God". So they capitalise He and Him and Good and Love due to this reverence. It does give me a slight chuckle at times when I see this behaviour because I know that when you love something or someone then it is hard to find words that can truly express your feelings. I often struggle when writing poems to my wonderful wife.
But
2. I do not use the lowercase to indicate that this god is a false god, or to highlight that I have lack of reverence for it. To me it is simply a case of following English grammar rules. God is a type of being, like human, or cat or cow, we do not use capitalisation when using these types of words.

I really don't know why anyone would care about what capitalisation other people choose to use. Clearly Christians like to use Capitals and non Christians don't. Should we then take it as a personal insult if others don't think like us? Are we always to take a stance of either you are for us or you are against us? Can't we just love rather than war?

[xSilverPhinx]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308868426' post='2257840']
Then in languages like German, every noun is capitalized. I can't imagine having to write like that. [/quote]

After visiting YouTube and seeing a few comments written ALL CAPITALISED I JUST REALISED THAT IT COULD BE MUCH WORSE.

[attempt at a non lame joke]Maybe the Greeks woke up one day and realised that their text looked a little loud?[/attempt at a non lame joke]

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1308900650' post='2258013']
After visiting YouTube and seeing a few comments written ALL CAPITALISED I JUST REALISED THAT IT COULD BE MUCH WORSE.

[attempt at a non lame joke]Maybe the Greeks woke up one day and realised that their text looked a little loud?[/attempt at a non lame joke]
[/quote]
Maybe they thought it looked too quiet, but their attempt to louden things up failed really badly. They were busy at the time being destroyed by the Romans or something, I'm sure.

[mortify]

If presumably our ancestors were atheists in the true sense, i.e. they had no knowledge of God, then the first humans to come to belief in God, were a step higher in evolution. Apparently this trait allowed the believing humans to outlast their dumber atheist counterparts.

(tongue in cheek)