KnightofChrist Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1307530261' post='2251195'] I don't agree with this. Theology is very elaborate and intricate, it is taught by many around the world, substantiated by cultural holidays, old churches, old paintings, substantiated by your peers, your elders, there are many reasons other than mental illness as to how you can believe without having proof or evidence to support your belief. the vast majority of people once thought the world was flat, that didn't mean they were all mentally ill, just ignorant and misinformed [/quote] I don't believe you're being logical at all. But since you are a angotic atheist such a illogical conclusion is understandable being you doubt your own doubt. Still again it would be the same as if if believe in a 6ft rabbit named Harvey and I constantly talk to Harvey and I believe Harvey constantly guides my life and tells me what to do and I think Harvey has magic powers and saves me from dangers, and I think Harvey will take me away to a special place saving me from dying. It would a of mental disorder, no matter how many people followed Harvey and believed in him it would be a mental disorder for people to be so devoted to an non-existence character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1307540898' post='2251232'] I don't believe you're being logical at all. But since you are a angotic atheist such a illogical conclusion is understandable being you doubt your own doubt. Still again it would be the same as if if believe in a 6ft rabbit named Harvey and I constantly talk to Harvey and I believe Harvey constantly guides my life and tells me what to do and I think Harvey has magic powers and saves me from dangers, and I think Harvey will take me away to a special place saving me from dying. It would a of mental disorder, no matter how many people followed Harvey and believed in him it would be a mental disorder for people to be so devoted to an non-existence character. [/quote] Once again you're applying the words 'mental disorder' to something that nobdy here is calling a mental disorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1307550150' post='2251281'] Once again you're applying the words 'mental disorder' to something that nobdy here is calling a mental disorder. [/quote] That matters not, I merely point out the would be reality if God does not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1307550248' post='2251282'] That matters not, I merely point out the would be reality if God does not exist. [/quote] I don't know for sure if god doesn't exist, so I can't say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1307550389' post='2251283'] I don't know for sure if god doesn't exist, so I can't say. [/quote] You sound much more like an agnostic than an atheist. Even by you singular definition of atheism (negative atheism) you're not an atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1307551277' post='2251288'] You sound much more like an agnostic than an atheist. Even by you singular definition of atheism (negative atheism) you're not an atheist. [/quote] I would call myself an agnostic atheist with ignostic beliefs. I don't know if god exists, but I don't believe in any gods. However, depending on how you define 'god' I'd disagree or agree, though I wouldn't call what you're defining 'god' but some other word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1307492804' post='2251076'] I reject the claims of theists for my own reasons, but not the possibility of a god because if there is one, I don't know it in the first place. You really can't be angry at or frustrated with something you don't believe in. But I guess there are a lot of people somewhere between full atheism and agnostic theism that could actually be angry at some form of god.[/quote][quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1307550389' post='2251283']I don't know for sure if god doesn't exist, so I can't say.[/quote]I am sorry, some religious prefer to think of people as agnostics or being deceptive about disbelief, it comforts them somehow. You already admitted you lack theistic beliefs and reject theism, which makes you an atheist, by no means does expressing doubt or uncertainty somehow change that. Unfortunately for those who have conditioned themselves into not thinking, they can't seem to make such realizations. Even Richard Dawkins has suggested that he is not absolutely certain and that his frustration is focused more at religiosity than belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1307552612' post='2251296'] I would call myself an agnostic atheist with ignostic beliefs. I don't know if god exists, but I don't believe in any gods. However, depending on how you define 'god' I'd disagree or agree, though I wouldn't call what you're defining 'god' but some other word. [/quote] Outside your personal opinion, that's Agnosticism. You are not an atheist. An Agnostic doesn't know and doesn't believe. Also I don't believe in Peter Pan but I don't purposefully underscore his name because I don't believe he exists. I mean a mistake is one thing but to purposely is just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Agnosticism can generally be atheistic, apathetic, or theistic. He seems to be between atheistic and apathetic agnosticism, which still makes him an atheist since he lacks theism and rejects theistic beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1307553080' post='2251297'] I am sorry, some religious prefer to think of people as agnostics or being deceptive about disbelief, it comforts them somehow. You already admitted you lack theistic beliefs and reject theism, which makes you an atheist, by no means does expressing doubt or uncertainty somehow change that. Unfortunately for those who have conditioned themselves into not thinking, they can't seem to make such realizations. Even Richard Dawkins has suggested that he is not absolutely certain and that his frustration is focused more at religiosity than belief. [/quote] Even Dawkins rates himself as a 6 on his scale that goes from 1 (knows god exists) to 7 (knows that god doesn't exist). He would be an agnostic atheist. I would place myself at 6 also, meaning doesn't know if god doesn't exist, but doesn't believe in any gods. Knight of Christ, agnosticism is about knowledge (gnosis='knowledge in Greek) while atheism is about belief. You can be an agnostic atheist. In fact, most atheists are also agnostic, those who outright say that gods don't exist are rare. One can't be intellectually honest and make that definite claim without conclusive proof, which IMO is impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1307553176' post='2251298'] Also I don't believe in Peter Pan but I don't purposefully underscore his name because I don't believe he exists. I mean a mistake is one thing but to purposely is just silly.[/quote] If someone were to claim that Peter Pan is real, and you reject their claims until they prove it to you that would make you an aPeterPanist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1307553693' post='2251304'] Even Dawkins rates himself as a 6 on his scale that goes from 1 (knows god exists) to 7 (knows that god doesn't exist). He would be an agnostic atheist. I would place myself at 6 also, meaning doesn't know if god doesn't exist, but doesn't believe in any gods. Knight of Christ, agnosticism is about knowledge (gnosis='knowledge in Greek) while atheism is about belief. You can be an agnostic atheist. In fact, most atheists are also agnostic, those who outright say that gods don't exist are rare. One can't be intellectually honest and make that definite claim without conclusive proof, which IMO is impossible. [/quote] You told me yourself that "true" atheism is purely negative. Now you're saying it isn't. Now there are degrees. Interesting. Anyway thanks for more opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1307554034' post='2251309'] You told me yourself that "true" atheism is purely negative. Now you're saying it isn't. Now there are degrees. Interesting. Anyway thanks for more opinion. [/quote] Where did I say that true atheism is purely negative? All atheism is, is a lack of belief in god. Edited June 8, 2011 by xSilverPhinx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1307554294' post='2251310']Where did I say that true atheism is purely negative? All atheism is, is a lack of belief in god.[/quote]You most likely made some obscure vague comment, that was interpreted to be both offensive and deceptive, that is now going to be misconstrued against you. Because you're clarification about you isn't good enough here. Edited June 8, 2011 by Mr.CatholicCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Mr.CatholicCat, were you catholic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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