An Easy Way To Fight Pornography

[Don John of Austria]

I do not believe all porn is illegal as a matter of fact I am pretty sure it is not illegal. However, it is illegal to traffic it across state lines, as most porn in america is made in California, most of the porn ins existance in America, was trafficed in illegally.

Still Porn could be made in a state and sold only in that state and well within federal law.

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1305482020' post='2241894']
is that really so different from watching movies about incredible violence? sure i love watching a guy evade police through a crowded downtown, firing a submachine gun wildly at them and pedestrians, but that doesnt mean i plan on doing that.
[/quote]

The main difference would probably be that you don't get sexual gratification from seeing violent movies. If someone masturbates at seeing innocent bystanders getting their heads shot off in an action flick then that's evidence of some psychological disturbance. I don't think every man who watches porn is gonna go and outright rape random women either but to think you can compartmentalize who you get sexual gratification in a fantasy world from how you seek it out in the real world, you have to be kidding yourself.

Plus I don't think movies that depict gratuitous violence are A-OK either, but when large groups of men get off when they see women being degraded is a lager cause for concern imo.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1305491338' post='2241927']
The main difference would probably be that you don't get sexual gratification from seeing violent movies. If someone masturbates at seeing innocent bystanders getting their heads shot off in an action flick then that's evidence of some psychological disturbance. I don't think every man who watches porn is gonna go and outright rape random women either but to think you can compartmentalize who you get sexual gratification in a fantasy world from how you seek it out in the real world, you have to be kidding yourself.

Plus I don't think movies that depict gratuitous violence are A-OK either, but when large groups of men get off when they see women being degraded is a lager cause for concern imo.
[/quote]

sexual gratification not likely, but you do get adrenaline and other types of gratification from it. I agree that the porn industry has myriad problems, many of your concerns i share as well, but the fact of the matter is that for every fake "rape" porn out there, there is countless other more normal ones depicting consensual, if unprobable relations. I see a problem when the arguably bad sections of a widespread and varied thing are used to ad hominem the larger group. IE, using pedophile priests to "take down" the catholic church as a whole.

while i understand that you have a moral argument against pornography of any kind, it is a bit silly to use to use the "extra" wrongness of subsections of that industry to attack the industry as a whole rather than the specific subsections.

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1305495404' post='2241968']
sexual gratification not likely, but you do get adrenaline and other types of gratification from it. I agree that the porn industry has myriad problems, many of your concerns i share as well, but the fact of the matter is that for every fake "rape" porn out there, there is countless other more normal ones depicting consensual, if unprobable relations. I see a problem when the arguably bad sections of a widespread and varied thing are used to ad hominem the larger group. IE, using pedophile priests to "take down" the catholic church as a whole.

while i understand that you have a moral argument against pornography of any kind, it is a bit silly to use to use the "extra" wrongness of subsections of that industry to attack the industry as a whole rather than the specific subsections.
[/quote]

how does "normal" coincide with "unprobable"? You know what I mean? It's like how can porn depict something and dub it "normal" while at the same time it almost never happens in real life.

And yes there may be more "normal" porn films than simulated rape, but even those simulated rape scenes are (or often are) done by consensual adults, so it is supa supa dumb to say "what's wrong with watching consensual adults have sex?" as if consent is the only qualifier to determine what is ok/legal and what is not. When you bring up the subsections of the more violent types of porn (I don't know percentage-wise what adult films fall under this umbrella) people who blab on about consent go "well I didn't mean [i]that[/i] type of porn."

I wasn't using the "extra wrongness" to attack the industry I was using it to attack that stupid "consent is the only thing that matters" argument when in reality it's not.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1305504996' post='2242038']
how does "normal" coincide with "unprobable"? You know what I mean? It's like how can porn depict something and dub it "normal" while at the same time it almost never happens in real life.

And yes there may be more "normal" porn films than simulated rape, but even those simulated rape scenes are (or often are) done by consensual adults, so it is supa supa dumb to say "what's wrong with watching consensual adults have sex?" as if consent is the only qualifier to determine what is ok/legal and what is not. When you bring up the subsections of the more violent types of porn (I don't know percentage-wise what adult films fall under this umbrella) people who blab on about consent go "well I didn't mean [i]that[/i] type of porn."

I wasn't using the "extra wrongness" to attack the industry I was using it to attack that stupid "consent is the only thing that matters" argument when in reality it's not.
[/quote]

I wasnt commenting on the basic assumption you guys are making, that any and all pornography is bad. I was commenting on the pointing to extreme cases to justify throwing the rest out.

i am not being an apologist for the porn industry. i have myriad problems with countless aspects of the industry. just pointing out that the fringe stuff doesnt define the group as a whole.

like just about any porn scenario, the "rape" scenes are almost entirely staged. actors acting roles. and normally it is quite obviously so, like watching pro wrestling.

normal and unprobable? well, im pretty sure things like a pizza delivery man with an inordinately large mustache who gets invited in for a orgy with lingerie clad ladies at a tupperware party after delivering a cheesy line about sausages are at best unprobable. like many things you see on TV, they dont show average everyday things because they are boring. the fact that this pizza delivery guy's night of cheesy one liners and slap bass soundtracks is a decidedly uncommon thing for pizza delivery guys to experience does not by itself make said movie wrong, it just makes it unrealistic. like a michael bay movie. but probably with better dialogue.

I know what you mean about "normal" and "unprobable", just pointing out that while the weird/illegal stuff does exist, more "normal" stuff is far more common.

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1305510574' post='2242089']
I wasnt commenting on the basic assumption you guys are making, that any and all pornography is bad. I was commenting on the pointing to extreme cases to justify throwing the rest out.

i am not being an apologist for the porn industry. i have myriad problems with countless aspects of the industry. just pointing out that the fringe stuff doesnt define the group as a whole.

like just about any porn scenario, the "rape" scenes are almost entirely staged. actors acting roles. and normally it is quite obviously so, like watching pro wrestling.

normal and unprobable? well, im pretty sure things like a pizza delivery man with an inordinately large mustache who gets invited in for a orgy with lingerie clad ladies at a tupperware party after delivering a cheesy line about sausages are at best unprobable. like many things you see on TV, they dont show average everyday things because they are boring. the fact that this pizza delivery guy's night of cheesy one liners and slap bass soundtracks is a decidedly uncommon thing for pizza delivery guys to experience does not by itself make said movie wrong, it just makes it unrealistic. like a michael bay movie. but probably with better dialogue.

I know what you mean about "normal" and "unprobable", just pointing out that while the weird/illegal stuff does exist, more "normal" stuff is far more common.
[/quote]

I gotcha I don't think the extreme cases are needed to condemn the whole industry, as it condemns itself well enough. I just get irritated when "consent" becomes the magical word that makes everything ok so I sorta lash out.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Ice_nine

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1305519257' post='2242177']
I gotcha I don't think the extreme cases are needed to condemn the whole industry, as it condemns itself well enough. I just get irritated when "consent" becomes the magical word that makes everything ok so I sorta lash out.
[/quote]

cool glad ya cottoned on to the point i was awkwardly trying to make. sometimes playing devils advocate on topics like this is like hitting a brick wall with your head

thats fair enough, your code of morality has some pretty good reasons for porn not to exist in general, and while im gonna remain neutral on that topic, thats perfectly fine. i just like to jump in and fact check a bit when stuff is being argued, perhaps for the right reasons but with the wrong method.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1305483509' post='2241897']
I do not believe all porn is illegal as a matter of fact I am pretty sure it is not illegal. However, it is illegal to traffic it across state lines, as most porn in america is made in California, most of the porn ins existance in America, was trafficed in illegally.

Still Porn could be made in a state and sold only in that state and well within federal law.
[/quote]


legal but not moral and nothing immoral is ever good.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1305555370' post='2242256']
legal but not moral and nothing immoral is ever good.
[/quote]
Don't recall commenting on it s moralityjust its legality. The thread is about using the law to fight porn. I'm just commenting on the validity of the tactic recommended.

[MithLuin]

I think a good bit of porn is made in the Twin Cities area as well.

[PennyLane]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwOLc9SfrbY[/media]

[PaladinSoG]

[quote name='ParadiseFound' timestamp='1305323810' post='2241029']
I mean, why can't you just leave people alone? If they want to watch two consenting adults perform sexual intercourse then I say let them. There's no negative impact on you.
[/quote]

Because it can lead to less souls in heaven for me to pantaloons and do other shenanigans to when I get to heaven! :D