dUSt Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1305306873' post='2240905'] my argument is invalid. [/quote] As is your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I have no comment on Chuck Norris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 It seems this is good news. So yay! I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of it all, although I followed along with Fr. Z's commentary well enough. I think there's a good chance we'll be able to bring the EF to my home parish- maybe once a month or so. A few years ago, I think just after the Motu Propio came out, we had a few sporadic Masses in the EF. Then our priest was transferred. In his new parish, they have an solemn Mass in the EF once a month, and a low Mass in the EF once a week. Our current priest is a good guy, but I don't think he's very interested in the EF. At any rate, he's going back to Africa this summer, and we're getting a new priest, who looks like he'd be interested. If not himself interested, but most likely interested for those within the parish who would like it. We also have a schola who would love to sing the Mass in the EF. So that's an additional help as well. [quote]Why cant we all just read Veritatis Splendor again instead of this focusing on this?[/quote] kafka, it's a matter of both/and. Good liturgy is extremely important in the spiritual life. It overflows into the rest of our lives. I [i]do[/i] think that having the Mass in the EF more available (and having better Masses in the OF) will affect peoples moral lives. It won't be the sole contributer and clearly we need to focus concretely on building a moral foundation... But, everything's connected. How we pray, how we worship, how we live, how we act, how we evangelize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1305306432' post='2240901'] I think I may have missed 1/2 your point, of which I take under advisement. That said, I would counter by saying it might be easier to fill up the pews if the only EF Mass was not 50 miles away from John Q. Parishoner. It might be easier to fill up the pews (and experience an increase in demand) if the supply wasn't so 'hidden' (for lack of a better word). Perhaps John Q. Parishoner will drive 30 miles out of his was to celebrate an EF, but 50 miles just makes it unfeasable for him. But I see what you are saying, too..... [/quote] Agreed. I've lived in this diocese for 4.5 years, and I only learnt that there even was an EF Mass in the past year. Unfortunately it's not in the city centre, and therefore not easy for many to get to. A few years ago there were plans to turn one of the parishes into a parish dedicated to the EF, but that plan was, unfortunately, scrapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1305310955' post='2240936'] Agreed. I've lived in this diocese for 4.5 years, and I only learnt that there even was an EF Mass in the past year. Unfortunately it's not in the city centre, and therefore not easy for many to get to. A few years ago there were plans to turn one of the parishes into a parish dedicated to the EF, but that plan was, unfortunately, scrapped. [/quote] I know the feeling! In my old diocese it's offered in maybe 3 places, all so far out in the boondocks I'd have no clue how to get there. In the diocese I'm in now, I don't think it's even offered, the nearest I found is 4 hours away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='BG45' timestamp='1305311395' post='2240940'] I know the feeling! In my old diocese it's offered in maybe 3 places, all so far out in the boondocks I'd have no clue how to get there. In the diocese I'm in now, I don't think it's even offered, the nearest I found is 4 hours away. [/quote] Yep. I know our Archbishop is dealing with many of the priests overseeing more than one parish, too, and the fact that most Scousers are very insular. Example: our old parish is overseen by a priest who also oversees 2 other parishes. All the parishes are within a 2 mile radius, if that. One of those was the one that was to be dedicated to the EF. When the idea of giving up one of the parishes arises, people act like it's the worst thing ever to go to another one that's just down the road. And those are all in Toxteth. To give more of an idea, someone from Toxteth might be persuaded to go to a parish in, say, Aigburth, but the reverse is less likely. When St Malachy's closed, many stopped going to Mass instead of just crossing Park Road and going to Our Lady of Mount Carmel. It's crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinzo Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1305300924' post='2240871'] It's not taught in our seminary. We train most of the priests from western Canada, and many foreign seminarians as well. One of my classmates who is a seminarian from Manitoba told me that his bishop told them that he didn't want them to learn Latin specifically because that would make it impossible to offer the Latin mass. The only person that I know speaks Latin in my class is an older seminarian who has a degree in Latin. Whenever something in Latin comes up in class, everyone looks at him for a translation. [/quote] I have to revise my remark. In fact, the US bishops seminary norms do require Latin but not many seminaries actually follow that norm , or others. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 [quote name='Skinzo' timestamp='1305331843' post='2241094'] I have to revise my remark. In fact, the US bishops seminary norms do require Latin but not many seminaries actually follow that norm , or others. S. [/quote] The guys I went to school with all studied Latin. And Greek, for that matter. Although I think only one or two years of the latter was required. Granted, the seminary also has a monthly (perhaps weekly?) low Mass in the EF. And a priest who teaches the guys whose bishops want them trained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenciledOne Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 [quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1305309442' post='2240924'] kafka, it's a matter of both/and. Good liturgy is extremely important in the spiritual life. It overflows into the rest of our lives. I [i]do[/i] think that having the Mass in the EF more available (and having better Masses in the OF) will affect peoples moral lives. It won't be the sole contributor and clearly we need to focus concretely on building a moral foundation... But, everything's connected. How we pray, how we worship, how we live, how we act, how we evangelize. [/quote] I respectively disagree, as far as thinking that the EF will bring about better morality to populations...I know you said it wouldn't be the sole contributor, but the OF is just as legitimate, not that I am disregarding the EF, but the almost elitist attitude concerning the EF is annoying (personal opinion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 14, 2011 Author Share Posted May 14, 2011 [quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1305335700' post='2241124'] I respectively disagree, as far as thinking that the EF will bring about better morality to populations...I know you said it wouldn't be the sole contributor, but the OF is just as legitimate, not that I am disregarding the EF, but the almost elitist attitude concerning the EF is annoying (personal opinion). [/quote] We should look maybe at the average way it is celebrated though. What is the average, most common way that the OF is celebrated, and what is the most common way the EF is celebrated? Which parishioner, on average, is more reverent? I don't say this to speak ill of those who prefer the Novus Ordo for whatever reason. I bring this up because I think it is evidence that the EF has something very valuable to offer the wider Church, and that the older Mass could potentially benefit all Catholics in a variety of ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenciledOne Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1305335851' post='2241125'] We should look maybe at the average way it is celebrated though. What is the average, most common way that the OF is celebrated, and what is the most common way the EF is celebrated? Which parishioner, on average, is more reverent? I don't say this to speak ill of those who prefer the Novus Ordo for whatever reason. I bring this up because I think it is evidence that the EF has something very valuable to offer the wider Church, and that the older Mass could potentially benefit all Catholics in a variety of ways. [/quote] Maybe the reason that the EF has parishioners that are more reverent (looking at the generalization), is because of the extra bells and whistles. And besides that the mentality of people that are attracted to the EF form of the Mass as well should be taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 14, 2011 Author Share Posted May 14, 2011 [quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1305336019' post='2241127'] Maybe the reason that the EF has parishioners that are more reverent (looking at the generalization), is because of the extra bells and whistles. And besides that the mentality of people that are attracted to the EF form of the Mass as well should be taken into account. [/quote] My point exactly. [i]Why[/i] does a Catholic choose the E.F..? [i]Why[/i] is there, on average, more reverence at a T.L.M.? The extra bells and whistles are something to look at. Do more reverent people go to the EF because they like the bells and whistles? I don't think that's the answer. Maybe a few are there for purely aesthetic reasons, and I think that's a reason that many people choose to go for the first time, but bells and whistles get old. You get used to them and they don't impress you anymore... so why stay? Why go week after week, when you're looked down upon for it, and maybe you have to drive farther, or get up earlier, or take more time out of your day? Basically, we need to look at it as an integrated whole. What attracts people, what makes people stay, and what makes these people take their faith so seriously? Where is the common thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) [quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1305336019' post='2241127'] Maybe the reason that the EF has parishioners that are more reverent (looking at the generalization), is because of the extra bells and whistles. And besides that the mentality of people that are attracted to the EF form of the Mass as well should be taken into account. [/quote] Maybe up on krampus most EF zealots are the obnoxious kind (wouldn't surprise me), but I have to say that most of the young families I know that prefer the EF are far from the strereotypes. I am too, although not the elitist toolbag part (I just went dbag on a guy the other day while talking about the EF vs charismatic Masses, I'm lame), just that in a lot of my thinking I don't fit the trad mold imo. I dunno... Exceptions and anecdotes. What does it mean? Double rainbow... Edited May 14, 2011 by Laudate_Dominum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I have a problem when we start discussing which mass is better, and which Catholics are more reverent. How do you decide who is more reverent? Some think the person on the floor talking in tongues is more reverent. Some think it is the person in the veil, kneeling for communion. I am reverent. What I wear, how I act, or which mass I go to does not change how reverent I am. I find it offensive for anyone to imply otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1305336909' post='2241136'] I have a problem when we start discussing which mass is better, and which Catholics are more reverent. How do you decide who is more reverent? Some think the person on the floor talking in tongues is more reverent. Some think it is the person in the veil, kneeling for communion. I am reverent. What I wear, how I act, or which mass I go to does not change how reverent I am. I find it offensive for anyone to imply otherwise. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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