kafka Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1305168637' post='2240347'] Are you implying then, that a correctly celebrated Mass is not particularly important, and that we need not expend effort towards that end? [/quote] I'm not implying anything. I am being forthright with my words, focusing on essentials, and offering balance in accord with my understanding and experience. We musnt omitt the lesser things: {23:23} Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! For you collect tithes on mint and dill and cumin, but you have abandoned the weightier things of the law: judgment and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, [b]while not omitting the others[/b]. {23:24} You blind guides, straining out a gnat, while swallowing a camel! but the lesser things would have no value if it were not for the weightier things: judgment and mercy and faith and love. {23:25} Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! For you clean what is outside the cup and the dish, but on the inside you are full of avarice and impurity. clean and correct outward liturgical forms, do not clean and transform filthy souls in the state of actual mortal sin. {23:26} You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the dish, and then what is outside becomes clean. cleaning the inside [the soul] is more important than cleaning the outside [the body, outward liturgical forms, gestures, music, formal prayers, etc.] {23:27} Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed sepulchers, which outwardly appear brilliant to men, yet truly, inside, they are filled with the bones of the dead and with all filth. some bishops, priests, laymen throughout history performed and assisted at all these clean and correct Masses, liturgical rites, and so on which appear brilliant to men but they had little effect since they were filled with many unrepentant actual mortal sins. Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich had a very good quote about all these things in her visions, but I cannot find it now. Right now the Church and the world is generally evil and complex with many severe problems. Outward forms, gestures, correctness and so on is in my opinion one of the very least of our problems. I'm not fighting against you in this thread, just offering my understanding as a gift to help all who come here. {61:1} The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, for the Lord has anointed me. He has sent me to bring good news to the meek, so as to heal the contrite of heart, to preach leniency to captives and release to the confined, {61:2} and so to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord and the day of vindication of our God: to console all who are mourning, {61:3} to take up the mourners of Zion and to give them a crown in place of ashes, an oil of joy in place of mourning, a cloak of praise in place of a spirit of grief. And there, they shall be called the strong ones of justice, the planting of the Lord, unto glorification. {61:4} And they will rebuild the deserted places of past ages, and they will raise up the ruins of antiquity, and they will repair the desolate cities, which had been dissipated for generation after generation. {61:5} And foreigners will stand up and will pasture your flocks. And the sons of sojourners will be your farmers and the workers of your vineyards. {61:6} But you yourselves will be called the priests of the Lord. It will be said to you, “You are the ministers of our God.” You will eat from the strength of the Gentiles, and you will pride yourself on their glory. In any case I'll be gone from here soon, so you wont have to deal with me anymore. Edited May 12, 2011 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I have a question, and I'm not trying to be a pain by asking. I simply do not know, and not being a traddie, I hadn't thought about it before now. I know that the OF in English is being revised to a more faithful translation. I completely support that effort, and it is currently being phased in by our pastors. I'm wondering if the same translation issues occurred in other languages. I mean is there this kind of fight going on in Spanish speaking countries, or German? If so, are they, or have they, received a revised translation? If not, why have we had this trouble in English? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 [quote name='kafka' timestamp='1305170128' post='2240362'] In any case I'll be gone from here soon, so you wont have to deal with me anymore. [/quote] I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1305170366' post='2240364'] I have a question, and I'm not trying to be a pain by asking. I simply do not know, and not being a traddie, I hadn't thought about it before now. I know that the OF in English is being revised to a more faithful translation. I completely support that effort, and it is currently being phased in by our pastors. I'm wondering if the same translation issues occurred in other languages. I mean is there this kind of fight going on in Spanish speaking countries, or German? If so, are they, or have they, received a revised translation? If not, why have we had this trouble in English? [/quote] I can't say for certain, but I think most other vernacular translations are at least marginally better, given what there is to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1305170458' post='2240368'] I can't say for certain, but I think most other vernacular translations are at least marginally better, given what there is to work with. [/quote] A part of this, at least with other romance languages (Spanish, French, etc) would be that they are closer to the original Latin then English, thus it is easier to provide a more faithful translation, and still have the vernacular sound natural. I'm not sure about other languages, though. I also don't know if this is accurate at all, but that would be my thought. Edited May 12, 2011 by Amppax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 It really can't get much worse than our current English translation. You can't even call it a translation, really. It's a paraphrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 [quote name='kafka' timestamp='1305170128' post='2240362']In any case I'll be gone from here soon, so you wont have to deal with me anymore.[/quote] i hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1305170366' post='2240364'] I have a question, and I'm not trying to be a pain by asking. I simply do not know, and not being a traddie, I hadn't thought about it before now. I know that the OF in English is being revised to a more faithful translation. I completely support that effort, and it is currently being phased in by our pastors. I'm wondering if the same translation issues occurred in other languages. I mean is there this kind of fight going on in Spanish speaking countries, or German? If so, are they, or have they, received a revised translation? If not, why have we had this trouble in English? [/quote] I've heard that the German-language missal was revised in 2002 and is up for revision again, causing some controversy. Not being competent in the language, I can't say what the details are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 We are called by God to worship Him. It is His due as our Creator. If we offer anything less than the absolute best this entire world has to offer, then we are holding something back from Him. I believe in a strict liturgy because I believe that it is the best this world has to offer. As I said, God called us to worship Him, and through the Church He also provided us with the means for doing so. It is our responsibility as rational people of faith to use this means of worship to the fullest possible extent. Love isn't always easy. That is what I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinzo Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 It's out. Keep scrolling for the English text: http://press.catholica.va/news_services/bulletin/news/27407.php?index=27407&lang=en S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I especially like the part about the Triduum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I like the part where the Libyans find them in the mall parking lot and Doc is like, "Run for it Marty!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 see.. I didn't read it in the original latin... you always lose something in the translation.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) [font="Arial"][size="3"]I read it, and don't pretend to understand a lot of it, but this made me happy:[/size] [size="3"][quote][/size] [size="2"]Ordinaries are asked to offer their clergy the possibility of acquiring adequate preparation for celebrations in the [i]forma extraordinaria.[/i] This applies also to Seminaries, where future priests should be given proper formation, including study of Latin[sup]8[/sup] and, where pastoral needs suggest it, the opportunity to learn the [i]forma extraordinaria[/i] of the Roman Rite.[/size] [size="3"][/quote][/size] [size="3"]We don't have a Latin mass in our diocese, I think simply because there is an overall lack of knowledge of it. So yay if our young men learn it in seminary![/size][/font] Edited May 13, 2011 by Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 what makes me sad, is how many are actually going to put this into practice? We've had the motu proprio for 4 years now, and my diocese still has only one Latin Mass celebrated in one location...and it's a very large diocese... I'm praying hard to get the FSSP to come to my diocese..hopefully they will get a parish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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