Nihil Obstat Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 [url="http://irenaeusgsaintonge.blogspot.com/2011/05/universae-ecclesiae.html"]Are you ready for it?[/url] According to Fr. Z, whom I trust very much, the new instruction on Summorum Pontificum (Universae Ecclesiae) is to be released to the public at noon (Rome time) on Friday. The Vatican press corps already has the text (I suppose so they can write about it right after it's released), but the rest of us have to wait to get a first look at it. Fr. Z seems to be cautiously pleased with it. He described it as a no-hitter, but not a perfect game, which seems to be far more good than bad. Especially encouraging is his opinion that the National catholic Reported (a.k.a. the Fishwrap) is going to hate it. That's always a good thing, although not saying much since they hate everything legitimately Catholic. My plan is to print off Universae Ecclesiae as soon as I get up in the morning, read over it while I'm at work, then write a blog post as soon as I can after I get home. Let's all pray that it's great stuff. If you remember, the rumours much earlier on were that this instruction was going to roll back some of the gains we traddies have been made since Summorum Pontificum. If my perception of the atmosphere is correct, this isn't the worry any longer. In any case, I find it unlikely that the Holy Father would sign a document which was in any way hostile to his own obvious love and respect for the Traditional Mass. (If the rumours I've heard are correct, he's been known to celebrate it privately since his election to the papacy.) Anyway, pray that this new document makes the Old Mass more widely available, thereby deepening the faith and reverence of our Catholic brothers and sisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) I pray for human persons not documents and liturgical forms and developments and decisions of the temporal authority, and so on. Edited May 12, 2011 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 I don't recall advocating prayers for inanimate objects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 although I do add at the end of my litanies: "save the Latin Mass, save the world" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1305149202' post='2240218'] If you remember, the rumours much earlier on were that this instruction was going to roll back some of the gains we traddies have been made since Summorum Pontificum. If my perception of the atmosphere is correct, this isn't the worry any longer.[/quote] Yes, I remember signing a petition. [quote]Anyway, pray that this new document makes the Old Mass more widely available, thereby deepening the faith and reverence of our Catholic brothers and sisters. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1305162922' post='2240301'] Yes, I remember signing a petition. [/quote] Name: Joseph B---------- on Feb 18, 2011 #1259 Diocese (Include Country): Calgary, Alberta, Canada State of Life (Bishop, Priest, Deacon, Layman, Academic, etc.): Layman You're number 1404. [url="http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/motuproprioappeal/"]http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/motuproprioappeal/[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1305160975' post='2240291'] I don't recall advocating prayers for inanimate objects. [/quote] I'm having a little fun here, not like last week when I was rebuking you, though I do seem to recall you mentioning in a thread a few months back that you were praying that a rubric be changed over the next five years. Just remember, human persons are more important than rubrics and liturgical forms. As soon as a significant number of Catholics decide to sincerely change their lives and practice the Faith, then all the outward forms will be set in order, because reverence proceeds from the soul, from the will and intellect, from living a moral life, from accepting all the teachings of Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture, Sacred Magisterium, from being in the state of grace, from cooperation with actual graces, from prayer, self-denial, works of mercy. All of this starts in the will, not ultimately from the modification of a liturgical form. Now these outward forms might help a very very little (if at all), but they will not in and of themselves change people before God. So I think praying for sinners will do more good than praying for a liturgical change or anything of the sort. That is my opinion. This is what Mary has been teaching us over the past two hundred years. Not to ruin your joy, if you like the Latin Mass then good for you. I'm just here to keep a little balance whether anyone likes it or not. Edited May 12, 2011 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) and just for the record (in general for everyone). I literally served or assisted at one or more Latin Masses for about five straight years or more, I cant remember now. I've been on both sides, I've been here and there, I've done and read a great many things when it comes to this. And I know for certain that even though things seem to be going back and forth with the culture wars over liturgical forms, I think it is best to be detached from them, since they are all passing away. Focus on the essentials. Edited May 12, 2011 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 [quote name='kafka' timestamp='1305164100' post='2240312'] I'm having a little fun here, not like last week when I was rebuking you, though I do seem to recall you mentioning in a thread a few months back that you were praying that a rubric be changed over the next five years. Just remember, human persons are more important than rubrics and liturgical forms. As soon as a significant number of Catholics decide to sincerely change their lives and practice the Faith, then all the outward forms will be set in order, because reverence proceeds from the soul, from the will and intellect, from living a moral life, from accepting all the teachings of Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture, Sacred Magisterium, from being in the state of grace, from cooperation with actual graces, from prayer, self-denial, works of mercy. All of this starts in the will, not ultimately from the modification of a liturgical form. Now these outward forms might help a very very little (if at all), but they will not in and of themselves change people before God. So I think praying for sinners will do more good than praying for a liturgical change or anything of the sort. That is my opinion. This is what Mary has been teaching us over the past two hundred years. Not to ruin your joy, if you like the Latin Mass then good for you. I'm just here to keep a little balance whether anyone likes it or not. [/quote] Praying that something happens is not at all the same as praying for an inanimate object. To pray for that rubric change is to pray for an action which is good for the faith. Furthermore, if I pray that a rubric is changed, that does not mean in any sense whatsoever that I'm praying less for intentions for sinners, souls in purgatory, etc., etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 alright Nihil, I just said what I had to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 {7:31} and those who use the things of this world, as if they were not using them. For the figure of this world is passing away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 [url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2V.HTM"]1083[/url] The dual dimension of the Christian liturgy as a response of faith and love to the spiritual blessings the Father bestows on us is thus evident. On the one hand, the Church, united with her Lord and "in the Holy Spirit,"5 blesses the Father "for his inexpressible gift6 in her adoration, praise, and thanksgiving. On the other hand, until the consummation of God's plan, the Church never ceases to present to the Father the offering of his own gifts and to beg him to send the Holy Spirit upon that offering, upon herself, upon the faithful, and upon the whole world, so that through communion in the death and resurrection of Christ the Priest, and by the power of the Spirit, these divine blessings will bring forth the fruits of life "to the praise of his glorious grace."7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1305167575' post='2240341'] [url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2V.HTM"]1083[/url] The dual dimension of the Christian liturgy as a response of faith and love to the spiritual blessings the Father bestows on us is thus evident. On the one hand, the Church, united with her Lord and "in the Holy Spirit,"5 blesses the Father "for his inexpressible gift6 in her adoration, praise, and thanksgiving. On the other hand, until the consummation of God's plan, the Church never ceases to present to the Father the offering of his own gifts and to beg him to send the Holy Spirit upon that offering, upon herself, upon the faithful, and upon the whole world, so that through communion in the death and resurrection of Christ the Priest, and by the power of the Spirit, these divine blessings will bring forth the fruits of life "to the praise of his glorious grace."7 [/quote] exactly notice how the focus is on the Church giving blessings, praise, adoration and thanksgiving to the Father through Communion in the Death and Resurrection of Jesus united in the Holy Spirit and not on the liturgical forms. All the forms of praise, adoration, thanksgiving, blessings, and so on would have little value if it were not for the One Consecration and One Communion. The forms have lesser value for those who are not in the state of sanctifying grace. The forms have greater value for those in the state of sanctifying grace and who are cooperating with actual graces during the Mass in prayer. Communion has no value for those in the state of unrepented mortal sin. It is a contradiction and a condemnation. All the liturgical forms of the present will be transfigured in the future world-age of the New Heaven and New Earth. They have a use for the present but they are fading away. We are not to be attached to them. We are to use them, not be used by them. Edited May 12, 2011 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Are you implying then, that a correctly celebrated Mass is not particularly important, and that we need not expend effort towards that end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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