add Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 [size=4]What does this couple of scripture passages mean to thee?[/size] [size="4"]Psalm 139:13 says:[/size] [size="4"] "For thou didst form my inward parts, thou didst knit me together in my mother's womb." [/size] [center][center][color="blue"] [/color][/center][/center] [size="4"] In Jeremiah 1:5, says[i]:[/i][/size] [size="4"]"[b]Before I formed you in the womb I knew you[/b], and before you were born I consecrated you [/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 ? I wonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='apparently' timestamp='1304984303' post='2239332'] [size=4]What does this couple of scripture passages mean to thee?[/size] [size="4"]Psalm 139:13 says:[/size] [size="4"] "For thou didst form my inward parts, thou didst knit me together in my mother's womb." [/size] [center][center][color="blue"] [/color][/center][/center] [size="4"] In Jeremiah 1:5, says[i]:[/i][/size] [size="4"]"[b]Before I formed you in the womb I knew you[/b], and before you were born I consecrated you [/size] [/quote] "For thou didst form my inward parts, thou didst knit me together in my mother's womb." God forms the body of a human person by creating the soul of the human person at the moment of fertilization, since the soul informs the body. The soul is the form of the body. {1:5} “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. And before you went forth from the womb, I sanctified you. And I made you a prophet to the nations.” Direct level of meaning Jeremiah is that he is elect in God's plan from Eternity, before Jermiah was conceived of. Before Jeremiah went forth from the womb God sanctified him, possibly meaning God gave him a non-formal baptism of desire like John the Baptist, before life birth, but that is speculative. Jermiah continues to be a prophet to the nations, since he cooperated with God in writing this inspired book of Scripture for the entire world (and not just the Jews). Indirect level of meaning Before I [the Father] formed you [the Son by sending Him] in the womb [of Mary], I knew you [since the Son is eternally proceeding from the Father. The Son is the knowledge of the Father by analogy]. And before you went forth from the womb [of Mary], I sanctified you [at the moment of conception Jesus is in the state of grace]. And I made you a prophet to the nations. [Jesus is the Chief Prophet to the nations: past, present and future] Edited May 10, 2011 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) and yes I do think the souls of aborted prenatals live in the afterlife. God gives them a baptism of blood. There are no acts to judge at the particular judgment so God sends them to Purgatory where they develop in the womb of the Church, meet Jesus (and Mary since she visits too), and finally assumed into Heaven. Such is the Justice, Mercy, Love that is God. Edited May 10, 2011 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudreyGrace Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 [quote name='kafka' timestamp='1304992421' post='2239411'] [u]God gives them a baptism of blood.[/u] There are no acts to judge at the particular judgment so God sends them to [u]Purgatory[/u] where they develop in the womb of the Church, meet Jesus (and Mary since she visits too), and finally assumed into Heaven. Such is the Justice, Mercy, Love that is God. [/quote] Yes to the baptism of blood Purgatory? I never thought that aborted children would go to Purgatory, given that they have not sinned. Wouldn't the baptism of blood cleanse them of their original sin, thus making them sinless? Is there a need for them to go to Purgatory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='apparently' timestamp='1304984303' post='2239332'] [size="4"]"[b]Before I formed you in the womb I knew you[/b][/size] [/quote] this must mean that a fetus is a predestine person. Might it be a logical conclusion could be that termination by abortion could effect the fate of others, i think so. life does not end for us what our body dies, this must be true for all the sinners and saints on earth and for our babies in the belly too. God blessed me with three children, they are so precious and wonderful, ... Edited May 11, 2011 by apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 [quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1305039251' post='2239640'] Yes to the baptism of blood Purgatory? I never thought that aborted children would go to Purgatory, given that they have not sinned. Wouldn't the baptism of blood cleanse them of their original sin, thus making them sinless? Is there a need for them to go to Purgatory? [/quote] they go to an 'upper fringe' of Purgatory for a spiritual maturation before meeting Jesus not to atone for personal sins. Purgatory is not just a place to make up for sin, souls their also change and become more and more like Jesus and Mary. If the aborted prenatals were directly assumed into Heaven immediately after their particular judgment, they would not be able to enjoy it or fit in like they would if they spiritually developed in the womb of the Church suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='apparently' timestamp='1305075809' post='2239880'] this must mean that a fetus is a predestine person. Might it be a logical conclusion could be that termination by abortion could effect the fate of others, i think so. life does not end for us what our body dies, this must be true for all the sinners and saints on earth and for our babies in the belly too. God blessed me with three children, they are so precious and wonderful, ... [/quote] God's knowledge is one aspect of predestination. God knows who he is going to create and who he is going to elect for particular important missions from Eternity. The consequences of an abortion affects the entire Church and world, but I dont know what you mean by fate so I wont linger on that. Of course the soul of a human person is immortal. And I agree God's children are so wonderful. They are God's special gift to Himself and because we are also God's children they are a special gift to us. Edited May 11, 2011 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='kafka' timestamp='1305076259' post='2239883'] they go to an 'upper fringe' of Purgatory for a spiritual maturation before meeting Jesus not to atone for personal sins. Purgatory is not just a place to make up for sin, souls their also change and become more and more like Jesus and Mary. If the aborted prenatals were directly assumed into Heaven immediately after their particular judgment, they would not be able to enjoy it or fit in like they would if they spiritually developed in the womb of the Church suffering. [/quote] plus I forgot to mention that the prenatals have to meet Jesus before entering into Heaven. There is no other way they could be assumed without encountering Jesus. Now we could say that they meet Jesus at the particular judgement since Jesus is God, but the meeting I think has to be more comprehensive. Their particular judgement will really be nothing since they never made a knowing choice. So there is nothing to judge other than the fact that they are in the state of sanctifying grace by means of the baptism of blood and worthy of Heaven, but they still have to spiritually develop otherwise they wont know what is going on. 1 Timothy {2:3} For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, {2:4} who wants all men to be saved and to arrive at an acknowledgment of the truth. {2:5} For there is one God, and one mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus, {2:6} who gave himself as a redemption for all, as a testimony in its proper time. They have to know that it is Jesus who saved them. Edited May 11, 2011 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 (edited) pray for us now and at the hour of our death Edited May 15, 2011 by add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 [img]http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/wisper3/100_9299.jpg[/img] the remains placed in the above graves where found in a dumpster at a <planned parenthood> each where given NAMES, a decent Christian BURIAL and laid to rest, at a place called FUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenciledOne Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 [quote name='add' timestamp='1305424110' post='2241622'] [img]http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/wisper3/100_9299.jpg[/img] the remains placed in the above graves where found in a dumpster at a <planned parenthood> each where given NAMES, a decent Christian BURIAL and laid to rest, at a place called FUS [/quote] I know that place! I wish I had know Jeremiah there, the 10th is only a day before my birthday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 If god knows that the fetus is not going to be born, does god necessarily make a soul for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 (edited) [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1305488734' post='2241915'] If god knows that the fetus is not going to be born, does god necessarily make a soul for it? [/quote] Yes! God still does. The soul is the substance of the body. If it were not for the soul, there would be no subsequent physical development after fertilization. So the prenatal would never get to live birth if it were not for the soul: 'But "soul: also refers to the innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him, that by which he is most especially in God's image: "soul" signifies the spiritual principle in man. . .it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul. . . the unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the "form" of the body. . . it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body. . .' (Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 363, 364, 365) Every human person has inherent, immortal and eternal value, precisely because God personally, intimately, immediately creates the soul of every human person out of nothing at the moment of fertilization. Edited May 15, 2011 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1305488734' post='2241915'] If god knows that the fetus is not going to be born, does god necessarily make a soul for it? [/quote] Yes, I'm afraid so! [color="#0000FF"][i][b][font="Garamond"]"[b]Before I formed you in the womb I knew you[/b], and before you were born I consecrated you" [/font][/b][/i][/color] [img]http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/wisper3/100_9261.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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