Cheerleader Has To Pay $45,000 To The School

[RezaMikhaeil]

It most likely has to do with the fact that she sued them without trying to resolve the issue prior or ceasing to be on the cheer leading team. I mean, those activities are priviledges, and not required. She could have easily just quit the team and walked away but she decided to remain and sue the school as a result of it. Sorry to say but she also probably didn't have evidence that he had raped her, if she did, he'd have been behind bars, etc.

You can't just sue people because you don't get your way without consequences.

[MarkKurallSchuenemann]

[quote name='RezaMikhaeil' timestamp='1304630863' post='2237653']
It most likely has to do with the fact that she sued them without trying to resolve the issue prior or ceasing to be on the cheer leading team. I mean, those activities are priviledges, and not required. She could have easily just quit the team and walked away but she decided to remain and sue the school as a result of it. Sorry to say but she also probably didn't have evidence that he had raped her, if she did, he'd have been behind bars, etc.

You can't just sue people because you don't get your way without consequences.
[/quote]

First, she didn't sue the school until they forced her out of cheer leading, and it was probably to force them to put her back on the team. She wanted to do cheer her school on, but not the monster who raped her. He should have been forced off the team, or do you support rapists!

Second, she could have been forced to lower the charges by the school because the player who raped her was a 'star player' and they didn't want to lose him!

Basically the argument you are using is, there should be no consequence for rape.

And before anybody says, there is no evidence of rape, the boy plead guilty for a misdeamor, which means he knew he did something wrong! Innocent people don't plead guilty!

Edited May 5, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann

[Amppax]

[quote name='RezaMikhaeil' timestamp='1304630863' post='2237653']
It most likely has to do with the fact that she sued them without trying to resolve the issue prior or ceasing to be on the cheer leading team. I mean, those activities are priviledges, and not required. She could have easily just quit the team and walked away but she decided to remain and sue the school as a result of it. Sorry to say but she also probably didn't have evidence that he had raped her, if she did, he'd have been behind bars, etc.

You can't just sue people because you don't get your way without consequences.
[/quote]


To this i would reply that it is unfair to punish her and take away the privilege of cheer leading because she refused to cheer for someone she accused of raping her. She was raped, or claimed to be raped. Like someone said earlier, rape is such a serious issue, and so any claim of rape should be treated with the utmost seriousness. Even though the guy she accused was not given jail time, it doesn't mean that she wasn't harrassed and assaulted by him, and for her to refuse to cheer for him is, in my mind, a completely reasonable decision. Should she have talked to the administration about this problem that she would have in regards to cheerleading? Yes. Should the administration kicked her off of the team for following her conscience? No. Did she actually have a case that she should have one? there are so many facts here that I don't know, and so many different variables, that i am going to have to hedge and say maybe.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1304631370' post='2237657']
First, she didn't sue the school until they forced her out of cheer leading, and it was probably to force them to put her back on the team. She wanted to do cheer her school on, but not the monster who raped her. He should have been forced off the team, or do you support rapists!

Second, she could have been forced to lower the charges by the school because the player who raped her was a 'star player' and they didn't want to lose him!

Basically the argument you are using is, there should be no consequence for rape.

And before anybody says, there is no evidence of rape, the boy plead guilty for a misdeamor, which means he knew he did something wrong! Innocent people don't plead guilty!
[/quote]
You don't have to agree with Reza, but your abuse of logic in this post is inexcusably brutal.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]Did she actually have a case that she should have one? there are so many facts here that I don't know, and so many different variables, that i am going to have to hedge and say maybe. [/quote]

that's the closest anyone's gotten to a legal reason why she should win.
it shows more to me that there's not really an argument for her favor.
it's mostly just pointing out how unfair it is.
unfairness does not always a legal case win.
maybe she shouldn't have to pay the 45k though. usually people sue and the other person has to pay to defend themself, that's just the way it is. not sure about this case and how they put the bill to her. maybe there's a law that says it's way too obvious in the schools favor.
maybe there was an incompetent lawyer involved who let the case go, even though there's clear laws that would point that it can't be done.

[MarkKurallSchuenemann]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1304631735' post='2237662']
You don't have to agree with Reza, but your abuse of logic in this post is inexcusably brutal.
[/quote]

No, what happened to that girl was brutal. Not only did the state defend a sexual deviant by allowing that monster to have no jail time, it punishes her for trying to stand up for her rights.

After all of this, the girl should sue the parents of that monster to get the money to pay for this.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1304633123' post='2237678']
No, what happened to that girl was brutal. Not only did the state defend a sexual deviant by allowing that monster to have no jail time, it punishes her for trying to stand up for her rights.

After all of this, the girl should sue the parents of that monster to get the money to pay for this.
[/quote]
All valid points, but your previous post abused logic to a ridiculous degree and doesn't help your case even a little bit.

[Amppax]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' timestamp='1304632316' post='2237668']
that's the closest anyone's gotten to a legal reason why she should win.
it shows more to me that there's not really an argument for her favor.
it's mostly just pointing out how unfair it is.
unfairness does not always a legal case win.
maybe she shouldn't have to pay the 45k though. usually people sue and the other person has to pay to defend themself, that's just the way it is. not sure about this case and how they put the bill to her. maybe there's a law that says it's way too obvious in the schools favor.
maybe there was an incompetent lawyer involved who let the case go, even though there's clear laws that would point that it can't be done.
[/quote]

Well, this isn't the first time that i've heard of a person who sues having to pay the opposing party's legal costs... usually it is done to discourage frivolous law suits, which does not speak well of the evidence or case in her favor. I had forgotten that she was ordered to pay legal costs, that does change my opinion slightly.

[philothea]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' timestamp='1304630638' post='2237651']
there's almost got to more more to it all.
how could someone be found guilty of rape and only get a misdemeanor and no prison? maybe there wasn't as much to that issue, so they thought she was out of line for not cheering, maybe she was the one who caused the sexual issues.
[/quote]
Unfortunately, no. Rapes are [b]routinely[/b] not prosecuted, or, as this was, pleaded down to nothing. It's up to the prosecutor to pursue the case, and they probably didn't want to ruin the reputation of such a "nice" star athlete.

[dairygirl4u2c]

well rapes are also routinely made up by girls too.
and it'd make more sense for a principle to outlash at a girl who acted poorly than to punish her for not cheerin on her rapist.
it could also be a gray situation, and there's hard feelings for all involved. such is life.

Edited May 5, 2011 by dairygirl4u2c

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1304627630' post='2237625']
[url="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cheerleader-must-compensate-school-that-told-her-to-clap-rapist-2278522.html"]http://www.independe...st-2278522.html[/url]

Research before you say something. It is the first link the article I posted. . .
[/quote]

Did you miss the part where I said the article used the term "raped" and also "sexual assault?" The two terms are not interchangeable, and articles are often very poorly written. It said he was convicted of "a misdemeanor charge." Did he or did he not actually "rape" her? The article doesn't say. Does it.

You've already taken her word (and possibly flawed representation of the words and context in the article) over the court's finding. That's fine. But don't say, "He did rape her, and she was forced to cheer for him by name." Because that's not what the article said.

~Sternhauser

Edited May 6, 2011 by Sternhauser

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' timestamp='1304638382' post='2237722']
well rapes are also routinely made up by girls too.
[/quote]

This is said all the time with little to no evidence and to be honest it defies common sense. But since this attitude is so prevalent I guess it's no wonder most rape victims don't try to prosecute their assailants.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1304563858' post='2237351']
Actually, it's a democracy. We have a president, not a count. [img]http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/1sm390teach.gif[/img]
[/quote]


Actually, its a Republic!

ed

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1304647875' post='2237799']
Actually, its a Republic!
[/quote]
True... article 4, clause 1.

I have mixed feelings about the story because...

[list=1]
[*]This story began rolling from a UK paper. They don't' always get their facts straight before publishing, and they story does seem one sided.
[*]I understand the school's point. The point of contention is whether someone can use a high school organization for personal expression.
[*]The guy probably really did something and is a jerk.
[*]School admin sounds they are a bit over the top on how serious they treat sports and especially cheerleading. Is there really a community crisis if one doesn't cheer?
[/list]

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1304631370' post='2237657']
First, she didn't sue the school until they forced her out of cheer leading, and it was probably to force them to put her back on the team. She wanted to do cheer her school on, but not the monster who raped her. He should have been forced off the team, or do you support rapists![/quote]

It doesn't matter weather she sued them before or after, because the courts obviously ruled based upon the evidence that she was not only wrong, but had to pay the school's legal fees. To most people, this would appear that the law suit was frivolous. When I was in high school I wasn't a cheerleader but I ran track. If, for whatever reason, I decided "today, I don't want to run track because my ex-girlfriend is in the crowd", I'd be kicked off the team and not allowed to return because my actions spoke loud and clear for the school. These extra-curricular activities are not about chosing when you want to do them, there is a schedule and you have to follow it.

As for the "monster" comment, your question is without merit. Never did I say or hint at the idea that I support rapists, rather I believe in going by the rule of law. I believe in innocent until proven guilty but I also believe that people often have to take plea deals because the cards are stacked against them. You don't know this young man, yet you've already determined that he's a "monster" and guilty of rape. It would be a sad day in America if every young man that was accused of rape was guilty, just because they took a plea deal, or worse yet, before they had their day in court.

He was given a suspended sentece, she could have taken him personally to court, aside from the criminal trial but she didn't. Which tells me that she probably didn't have the goods on him. He may have taken the lowered rape charge because she had consentual sex with him and yet he couldn't prove his side either and didn't want to take the chance of getting jail time for a crime that he did not commit.

[quote]Second, she could have been forced to lower the charges by the school because the player who raped her was a 'star player' and they didn't want to lose him!
[/quote]

It was her choice, she did not have to, and neither does it make the young man guilty. Just because he's the star player doesn't mean that he got off easy or that he's a monster. It seems to me that you have made the mistake of judging the man without knowing the circumstances and without having been there at the time of the incident.

[quote]Basically the argument you are using is, there should be no consequence for rape.[/quote]

Basically the argument that you're using is that you haven't taken the time to read and comprehend what I have written. The consequences was a suspended sentence. That's the punishment that the judge determined fit the crime. If that's any hint into the specifics of the evidence, it paints a clear picture that she probably didn't have the evidence on her side and probably put herself in a situation that was not wise [to put it politely]. You know that there is a level of responsibility for those who claim to have been raped too. I understand that this might be a hard concept for you to grasp but if a girl goes to a party, gets drunk, teases a guy, gets naked with him, gets intimate with him and then says, "he raped me because I never intended to have sex with him", that is a gray area that she needs to take some responsibility for. Many Saints have told young ladies to dress adequately and not put themselves in such situations to protect themselves.

[quote]And before anybody says, there is no evidence of rape, the boy plead guilty for a misdeamor, which means he knew he did something wrong! Innocent people don't plead guilty![/quote]

First and foremost, we don't know what kind of rape that it was. Often Stagetory rape [felony] gets dropped to misdemeanor rape, depending on the age gap. If he is 17 and she is 16, no judge is going to throw the book at him. If you do some research into this, you'll find that the majority of misdemeanor rape charges are stagetory in nature. The rest are circumstantial. IE: If she got drunk [it was a party] and completely naked with him, then right as they were about to partake in intercourse [I hope we can say that word here, I mean no offense], she says, "I don't want to do this" and he's too drunk and too immature to listen. The judge is not going to put him in the same category as a predator sex offender, as you'd like to consider him. In many people's opinion, these laws are unfairly stacked against the young men, who are immature and stupid, but are not predators, while allowing the females to take no responsibilty for leading him on, putting herself in that situation, etc.


[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1304631706' post='2237661']
To this i would reply that it is unfair to punish her and take away the privilege of cheer leading because she refused to cheer for someone she accused of raping her. She was raped, or claimed to be raped. Like someone said earlier, rape is such a serious issue, and so any claim of rape should be treated with the utmost seriousness. Even though the guy she accused was not given jail time, it doesn't mean that she wasn't harrassed and assaulted by him, and for her to refuse to cheer for him is, in my mind, a completely reasonable decision. Should she have talked to the administration about this problem that she would have in regards to cheerleading? Yes. Should the administration kicked her off of the team for following her conscience? No. Did she actually have a case that she should have one? there are so many facts here that I don't know, and so many different variables, that i am going to have to hedge and say maybe.
[/quote]

Misdemeanor rape, research it, you'd be surprised to learn that it's not given to predator rapists. He is a stupid young man, but not the monster that people would like to assume. She doesn't get to pick and chose when to cheer, if she doesn't want to cheer because it "causes her pain", they have no obligation to make an acception, as the judge made clear.

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' timestamp='1304638382' post='2237722']
well rapes are also routinely made up by girls too.
and it'd make more sense for a principle to outlash at a girl who acted poorly than to punish her for not cheerin on her rapist.
it could also be a gray situation, and there's hard feelings for all involved. such is life.
[/quote]

Thank you Dairygirl, the first breath of fresh air here. As a matter of fact, if you believed the statistics of this country, you'd think that every 6 minutes a female gets raped, but if you research those statistics, you'd find out that a large portion of those reported rapes are false allegations. According to Dr. Eugene J. Kanin of Purdu University, it's 41% of all the cases that she studied. According to N.S. Rumney in the [i]Cambridge Law Journal, [/i]it's quite higher. I, myself, do not think that if a girl and a boy get drunk together at a party and she volunteerily gets naked with him, then right as they are in the midst of having intercourse, she says that she doesn't want to do it, but he doesn't listen [because he's immature and drunk], that he should be put on trial for rape. Surely the last part at the end may not have been consentual but she was intimate with him and naked. She bares some responsbility and he is just an immature teenager, who's life should not be ruined.

When Kobe Bryant was accused of rape, the woman had slept with several other men that night before volunteerily going up to his room, getting naked for him [by her own admission] and then claiming that she didn't want to have sex, and he raped her. In my opinion, he shouldn't even have had to go to court. I mean, how can anyone possibly believe her story. In the situation of Tupac Shakur, the same thing. She had voluntery intercourse with him on the dancefloor, in which she initiated it, then she went back to his hotel room with him and claimed rape afterward, which sent him away to prison, even thou all of the evidence [check the court documents] points to the fact that she had consentual intercourse.

An additional gray situation is that how do we know that the principal knew that she was raped? Many rape cases are done in private, behind closed doors. Possibly it could have been that the principal didn't know, but only knew what his job was and what rules to enforce. Whatever the reason, the judge had access to the full evidence and ruled against her, not only in her case against the school, but also with the supposed "rapists" punishment. It smells like a drama queen to me.