I Was Happy He Died But I Was Wrong...

[Guest]

As I live, says the Lord God, I swear I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked man, but rather in the wicked mans conversion, that he may live. ( Ezek. 33 : 11 )

[4588686]

Interesting point.


I'm still happy.

[kafka]

you werent wrong to be happy unless you had a bad intention.

That verse of Ezekiel has to be interpreted in its context, as well as in light of all of Sacred Scripture both Old Testament and New, all the teachings of Sacred Tradition, and all of the teachings of Sacred Magisterium.

Edited May 4, 2011 by kafka

[Ice_nine]

That's good I'm just kind of aggravated that I can't stop thinking about it. I have no strong feelings of anger or happiness or anything but just a barrage of questions that I'll likely never know the answers to. It's frustrating that I'm so fixated on it. I think when you celebrate over one man's death you make him to be something super-human and you give him the power to control your emotions in a sorta roundabout way.

I dunno. I guess I'm happy he can't hurt anyone anymore. But I woulda been happier if they caught him sooner as it probably woulda had more of a practical impact. So I'm a little confused. I think it's ok to be confused and unsure of how you do feel and how you should feel.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1304535119' post='2236952']
As I live, says the Lord God, I swear I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked man, but rather in the wicked mans conversion, that he may live. ( Ezek. 33 : 11 )
[/quote]
"But if the just man turn himself away from his justice, and do iniquity according to all the abominations which the wicked man useth to work, shall he live? all his justices which he hath done, shall not be remembered: in the prevarication, by which he hath prevaricated, and in his sin, which he hath committed, in them[color="#4169E1"] he shall die."[/color]- Ezechiel 18,24

[Guest]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1304538739' post='2237015']
"But if the just man turn himself away from his justice, and do iniquity according to all the abominations which the wicked man useth to work, shall he live? all his justices which he hath done, shall not be remembered: in the prevarication, by which he hath prevaricated, and in his sin, which he hath committed, in them[color="#4169E1"] he shall die."[/color]- Ezechiel 18,24
[/quote]
Osama was never just though was he ? Just always wicked.

[cmotherofpirl]

THere is nothing wrong with being happy the world is a tiny bit safer since he is dead. Sort of like when they announced Hitler was dead. A big sigh of relief.

[kafka]

I was thinking about writing a commentary on the whole Chapter 33 of Ezekiel. I love Sacred Scripture, but Ezekiel is a difficult book. But it is a very interesting chapter. God uses some very simple figures of speech: watchman, sword, trumpet, land which are pregnanat with meaning. It would be better to interpet the entire chapter as a whole, but taking verse eleven alone, I think the Douay Rheims translation, or CPDV is better:

{33:11} Say to them: As I live, saith the Lord God, I desire not the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way, and live. Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways: and why will you die, O house of Israel?

{33:11} Say to them: As I live, says the Lord God, I do not desire the death of the impious, but that the impious should convert from his way and live. Be converted, be converted from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?

We know from Tradition, the rest of Scripture and Magisterium that God does in fact will physical death as a punishment for sin, however He does not will that a human person should die impious, or wicked, that is in the state of mortal sin, with unrepentant actual mortal sins on his conscience. So God wills a conversion to spiritual life of sanctifying grace that the impious may change and live forever even if they have to physically die. Sanctifying grace which flows from Jesus on the Cross is what makes death sweet.

God freely gives grace to all men including Osama, and he sends watchmen into the world as a gift to guide His children, like Ezekiel in the O.T. and Pope Benedict (or bishops and saints) in the present. Grace is two-fold, prevenient or operative, and subsequent or cooperative. Throughout Osama's life and the life of all men God freely gives grace in intervals sufficient for that unique human person in each of his particular circumstances to do good and avoid evil. This is something God effects independent of and prior to a knowing choice to do good or evil as well as during the knowing choice of good or evil.

"the grace of God and the interior help of the Holy Spirit must precede and assist, moving the heart and turning it to God," (Dei Verbum, n. 4)

It is up to the human person to subsequently cooperate with the grace God freely operates on that person.

Osama we know did not cooperate with the actual graces God gave him which could of led him to a baptism of desire or a baptism of water or at least to avoid his his heinous sins against humanity. Instead he freely rejected the actual graces God gave him throughout his entire adult life, even every time he did something severely evil, since God's grace is needed to avoid evil, and God always freely gives it on each occassion since God is faithful to what is good. God's grace is sufficient. This is what makes a person guilty before God when he commits a sin. How could a man be guilty before God if God does not give the grace to that man to avoid the sin?

Osama refused to cooperate or even partially cooperate with innumerable graces of God---as well as warnings from watchmen like Popes John Paul II, and Pope Benedict, world leaders, good Muslims and many others---in effect becoming a satanic and murderous human person guilty of innumerable actual mortal sins and effecting severe harms and disorders upon God's family of children. It is because Osama rejected all God's graces, that he is guilty of Hell. He wasted God's grace. It is shameful and sad the way he died. God did not will it to be that way, however Osama freely chose it. And then at the moment of death, there is the particular judgment. And God certainly wills those who die with unrepentant mortal sins on their conscience (final impenitence) to Hell.

But given the circumstance we may be glad since the world a little better as motherofpearl said.

Was Osama ever not impious or wicked? It is possible maybe when he was young. He probably cooperated or partially cooperated with some of God's graces but I wouldnt know.

Edited May 5, 2011 by kafka

[MarkKurallSchuenemann]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1304535119' post='2236952']
As I live, says the Lord God, I swear I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked man, but rather in the wicked mans conversion, that he may live. ( Ezek. 33 : 11 )
[/quote]

I am glad the holy spirit spoke something into your heart.

I regret that Osama Bin Laden had to die, as I did Gadhafi's son, and ever person that dies that is wicked. I want this war between God and Satan done and over with, so that God can grant us true peace in his son!

[missionseeker]

uh, God won that war a long time ago. Satan may refuse to believe it, and we struggle with free will, but God won that war.

Edited May 5, 2011 by missionseeker