Affirmative Action

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1304553256' post='2237202']
Listen to what you are saying.

Why should you be punished. Do you not think black people are still being punished for the results of slavery and segregation?

Believe me, I understand completely the thought of "being punished" for the sins of your ancestors. Forget that. Let's just look at today. If you can honestly say that black people today are unaffected by what happened during slavery and then the laws following slavery, then you completely have a point. All laws should be equal.

But you can't say that.

So, to answer your question. Why should you be punished and pay today? [b]Because black people are still punished and have to pay today.[/b]

How can you just say "not my problem" to them?
[/quote]
I wasn't responding to the points you've made nor the question about AA. I was only responding to individual talking points brought up earlier in the thread. Do I think that many black people are stuck in a cyclical pattern of poverty? Yes. Do I think that AA is the way to go about it? No. Do I have a better solution. No. I'm no politician. But just because I don't have a better answer doesn't mean that the current solution is the ideal one.

[Amppax]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1304553256' post='2237202']
Listen to what you are saying.

Why should you be punished. Do you not think black people are still being punished for the results of slavery and segregation?

Believe me, I understand completely the thought of "being punished" for the sins of your ancestors. Forget that. Let's just look at today. If you can honestly say that black people today are unaffected by what happened during slavery and then the laws following slavery, then you completely have a point. All laws should be equal.

But you can't say that.

So, to answer your question. Why should you be punished and pay today? [b]Because black people are still punished and have to pay today.[/b]

How can you just say "not my problem" to them?
[/quote]

And adding to this, are you really being "punished"?
[font="Arial"][size="2"][quote]punishment: suffering, pain, or loss that serves as retribution[/quote][/size][/font]
[font="Arial"][size="2"]
[/size][/font]
[font="Arial"][size="2"]is this retribution? I don't think so. I would say its more of an olive branch on out part to help and make our society more fair and more just.[/size][/font]

[penguin31]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1304549841' post='2237175']
You need to read the post Dust made a few post up. Godbless and Peace be with you !
[/quote]

Read the majority of the study. I stand informed.

[dairygirl4u2c]

once again deliveryboy is reading too much into what other people say, and acting knee jerk. when the folks are just being objectively minded, and not even close to 'racist' or 'blinded'

Edited May 5, 2011 by dairygirl4u2c

[Guest]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' timestamp='1304554425' post='2237218']
once again deliveryboy is reading too much into what other people say, and acting knee jerk. when the folks are just being objectively minded, and not even close to 'racist' or 'blinded'
[/quote]
Dude go milk a cow honestly. You do not want to go to war with Delivery Boy aka No-tw with Know-tw. It will be the end of you. Go to sleep. And you are racist. You're the only one I'm calling racist. So again go milk some cows and have a good day.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Guest

[Vincent Vega]

And members of Phatmass continue to exemplify the charity of Our Lord. Excellent.

[Guest]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1304554708' post='2237224']
And members of Phatmass continue to exemplify the charity of Our Lord. Excellent.
[/quote]
And members of phatmass call black people and non white people " colored people " just as excellent. We make a good team.

[dUSt]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1304553559' post='2237208']
I wasn't responding to the points you've made nor the question about AA. I was only responding to individual talking points brought up earlier in the thread. Do I think that many black people are stuck in a cyclical pattern of poverty? Yes. Do I think that AA is the way to go about it? No. Do I have a better solution. No. I'm no politician. But just because I don't have a better answer doesn't mean that the current solution is the ideal one.
[/quote]
Point taken. I'm not convinced affirmative action is the best solution either. I actually think it should start with schools and maybe even incentive programs for big businesses to move into poverty stricken areas with something other than minimum wage paying jobs. I don't know. I don't have the answers. I'm just not dismissing affirmative action as quickly as others because at least it's something--even though it may cause more grief than good.

I am convinced of one thing though, that it isn't "unfair" to white people. If that is the argument that continually arises, then a better solution will never materialize. I can think of many other more legitimate reasons affirmative action isn't the solution, but taking the "unfair to white people" stance just makes me laugh.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1304554905' post='2237229']
And members of phatmass call black people and non white people " colored people " just as excellent. We make a good team.
[/quote]
You'd prefer that I call them non-White? (Hint: if something is not white, then what is it?) Also, I was in a rush earlier, and had intended to write "People of Color", which I guess is more politically correct nowadays, but seems to me to be the same term.

[Guest]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1304555079' post='2237233']
You'd prefer that I call them non-White? (Hint: if something is not white, then what is it?) Also, I was in a rush earlier, and had intended to write "People of Color", which I guess is more politically correct nowadays, but seems to me to be the same term.
[/quote]
Well at any rate I'm not calling you racist. I don't even know you. Peace.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1304554615' post='2237222']
Dude go milk a cow honestly. You do not want to go to war with Delivery Boy aka No-tw with Know-tw. It will be the end of you. Go to sleep. And you are racist. You're the only one I'm calling racist. So again go milk some cows and have a good day.
[/quote]

how christ like of you. yes my hatin is so all over the place, while you sit back in dandelions.
i push for affirmative action action and i'm a racist. right. and ya can't even made a comprehensible point to any of these people as to why they are racist or blinded, when they are not racist or blinded, about using 'colored people' or 'people of color'.
i'd debate you about it all, but i doubt itd go anywhere. you're not exactly the brightest crayon in the box. and you'd probably rather stick with base 'end of you' stuff anyway. not that you even have any idea what you're talking about there, either.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1304546265' post='2237117']
I don't see it as discrimination at all. If a company has 100 employees, and is required by law that say five of them are black, how is that discriminating against whites? There are 95 positions that white person has an opportunity to land.

A study conducted at the University of Chicago in 2003* found that people with "black-sounding" names such as Lakisha and Jamal are 50 percent less likely to be interviewed for a job compared to people with "white-sounding" names such as Emily or Greg.[b] 50 percent less likely[/b] to get an interview. I can only imagine how this number translates to actual interviews when the person shows up face to face. And that is 2003, not 1963.

Calling affirmative action "discriminating against whites" may hold up as a theory, but if we are judging based on [b]actual reality[/b], then that claim is pretty bunk.

* [size="1"]Study source: http://economics.uchicago.edu/download/_DISCRIMINATION.pdf[/size]
[/quote]


Then again, we did hire a president with a full name of Barack Hussein Obama. Even though some racists do go around quoting his full name as a way to imply he's an eeeevil Muslim. That's how his name was printed on the ballot and enough Americans saw it and still picked him for the highest office in the land that he won. Easily. Even though it's pretty much the opposite of a white-sounding name. They picked him over John McCain, aka the whitest man in the USA. I mean if those Americans had no problem hiring someone with that name as POTUS I am sure they would hire that name for VP of Advertising or CFO, CIO, or CEO or Mid-Level/Low-Level Peon in their enterprise.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Maggie

[Guest]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' timestamp='1304555567' post='2237242']
how christ like of you. yes my hatin is so all over the place, while you sit back in dandelions.
i push for affirmative action action and i'm a racist. right. and ya can't even made a comprehensible point to any of these people as to why they are racist or blinded, when they are not racist or blinded, about using 'colored people' or 'people of color'.
i'd debate you about it all, but i doubt itd go anywhere. you're not exactly the brightest crayon in the box. and you'd probably rather stick with base 'end of you' stuff anyway. not that you even have any idea what you're talking about there, either.
[/quote]
Dude I'm not even talking about this thread. I'm talking about the thread on white people not dating black people. What you said in that thread was sick. Case closed. I didn't even read what you wrote in this thread. Later I got g's to make. And if you play your cards right I'll still take you to the olive garden and to the mall and get you in that new fubu. Lil lady if you want to kick it with the mainmam you gotta change your gameplan that's all.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Guest

[Maggyie]

That's another point I forgot to make. How much affirmative action is really appropriate in a country where the freely-chosen leadership is minority race? No doubt our society has racist elements but can you really call it a racist or sexist society when much of the leadership is black, hispanic and/or female? I mean these are the people WE picked to lead us.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Maggie

[thessalonian]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1304530834' post='2236909']
The argument can be made that affirmative action is actually the mechanism that enforces this. If you truly believe that race should not be a selection criteria for jobs, you must realize that without affirmative action, many, many employers would only hire white males. You can't deny that racism exists. So--in order for race not to be part of the selection criteria--we need affirmative action, do we not?

I completely agree that if race was never a factor for employers, affirmative action would be wrong--but you must realize that race [b]IS[/b] a factor in the world we live in, with or without affirmative action. You simply can't get around that fact. Shouldn't we at least try to make it an even playing field?
[/quote]

Nope. You can't counter sin with another sin. Every time race is a part of the equation it is a sin either against minorities or against whites. The opposite problem DOES occur where a white male does not get a job that he is more and better qualified for because someone uses affirmative action as a criteria for selection. I am not at all denying discrimination. I am not at all approving in any way of a company hiring all white males. AA is not the moral solution however.