dUSt Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1305556398' post='2242257'] The problem with your analogy is that it is not the same. Job 8 has two applicants. Not two Jobs. A white and a black apply. The white is more qualified but because of AA the black is given the job. They don't give both the job. I've seen this happen so don't sweep it under the rug as you currently are. Whitey may have a half dozen kids. Don't tell me they aren't hurt if he can't find a job for 2 more years. [/quote] This makes me happy. The black guy would have had a way more difficult time getting a job if AA wasn't in place than the white guy has with AA in place. Seems fair. You keep saying "it's not fair for the white guy", but if AA wasn't in place, you seem to imply that you'd have no reason to say "it's not fair for the black guy". We totally disagree on this matter. I see tons of racism. I'm assuming you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1305559502' post='2242278'] What is ridiculous about your analogy is that there are three parties involved in a hiring. Not two. A proper analogy would be that in order for you to make up for the discrimination against a swede, you would delete a post by a white or prevent a white from posting. Or if a swede asks for mebership, you prevent a white from joining the forum. [/quote] I wasn't trying to make an analogy of AA. I was making an analogy to show you that the "power" position discriminating is different from the "weaker" position discriminating. One has a greater effect than the other. You act as if all discrimination is exactly the same, and that's simply not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1305560018' post='2242282'] so then as long as a race is the dominate percentage of a society, they can not be discriminated against? its impossible? [/quote] No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the discrimination has a lesser effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1305562089' post='2242298'] this dead horse is still being kicked? [/quote] And somehow the dead horse keeps (weakly) kicking back. All I can say is that Don John owns this thread. Keep hammerin' them infidels, brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 So to solve possible discrimination, we codify discrimination into law. Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1305570434' post='2242379'] So to solve possible discrimination, we codify discrimination into law. Makes sense. [/quote] Snide comments like this aren't really helping anyone, I would like to here what you would do to address discrimination, unless you just don't have a solution. And possible discrimination? discrimination exists, it happens, so its not just possible, its a reality. Edited May 16, 2011 by Amppax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1305570434' post='2242379'] So to solve possible discrimination, we codify discrimination into law. Makes sense. [/quote] It's not discrimination, like I've already explained. If you'd like to keep calling it that, that's fine with me. Either way, yes, it does make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1305570659' post='2242381'] Snide comments like this aren't really helping anyone, I would like to here what you would do to address discrimination, unless you just don't have a solution. And possible discrimination? discrimination exists, it happens, so its not just possible, its a reality. [/quote] Not codifying discriminatory practices into law is implied by the comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1305571112' post='2242383'] It's not discrimination, like I've already explained. If you'd like to keep calling it that, that's fine with me. Either way, yes, it does make sense. [/quote] If you're drawing distinctions, you're discriminating. What you're actually arguing is that it's just discrimination. Do you support the case I brought up earlier, wherein seven members of the Houston Fire Department were issued badges by court order in spite of not ranking high enough on promotional examinations? Do you support the FDNY throwing out a test because not enough minorities passed the entrance exam? How about the promotional test thrown out in New Haven Connecticut? The "affirmative action" I would support is recruiting posters in predominately minority schools and visits to those schools, because I entertain the possibility that some careers might not be as commonly thought of as possible in minority household as in white households. Extra points, quotas and all other means are harmful and unjust discrimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote]Do you support the case I brought up earlier, wherein seven members of the Houston Fire Department were issued badges by court order in spite of not ranking high enough on promotional examinations? Do you support the FDNY throwing out a test because not enough minorities passed the entrance exam? How about the promotional test thrown out in New Haven Connecticut?[/quote] How do you know the tests weren't racially biased? Here's the bottom line. I am fine with whites having a harder time now. Call it reverse discrimination, call it discrimination, call it unfair, whatever. I, being white, have no problem working harder to accomplish things that may have been easier in the past. I welcome the challenge. I promise any "hardships" us whites would have to go through now because of AA can't even begin to compare to the hardships that blacks have to go through. Maybe it's my Catholic tendency to embrace repentance. Maybe it's my desire to put others before myself. Who knows. It just comes off very silly and ridiculous to me when white people start talking about "discrimination". It's like, do they have any knowledge of history? Are they simply ignoring what this country did to black people? How can you justify any comparison? It absolutely floors me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) Screw justice, fairness, or objectivity. Just as so long as the demands of the great modern goddess of "Equality" are satisfied. Edited May 16, 2011 by Socrates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1305567296' post='2242361']I wasn't trying to make an analogy of AA. I was making an analogy to show you that the "power" position discriminating is different from the "weaker" position discriminating. One has a greater effect than the other. You act as if all discrimination is exactly the same, and that's simply not true.[/quote]The issue is simple, unjustified discrimination is always wrong. I would point out there is a difference between a job and a career, jobs just about anyone can do, careers not so much. I mean, do you really need someone more qualified to sweep floors for you? But the problem is... such as in Texas, employment is "at-will" employment, meaning that with no reason and without warning, you can be dismissed. So technically an employer could dismiss you because you're catholic or atheist, or because they didn't like you, nothing to do with the job or career. But as long as they go with "at-will" dismissal, no crime has been committed. So how do you try to counteract that, affirmative action. Now I do agree that certain policies that have formed under the umbrella of affirmative action have been bad, but that doesn't invalidate the need or good that such programs provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1305571803' post='2242389'] Screw justice, fairness, or objectivity. Just as so long as the objectives of the great modern goddess of "Equality" are satisfied. [/quote] Screw justice, fairness, or objectivity. Just as so long white people can continue to discriminate against blacks and keep them in the U.S. government created ghettos where they belong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1305571789' post='2242388'] It just comes off very silly and ridiculous to me when white people start talking about "discrimination". It's like, do they have any knowledge of history? Are they simply ignoring what this country did to black people? [/quote] Actually, it's just accepting the principle of not judging a man by the color of his skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1305572094' post='2242393'] Screw justice, fairness, or objectivity. Just as so long white people can continue to discriminate against blacks and keep them in the U.S. government created ghettos where they belong. [/quote] You are correct the white liberal welfare state harms the black community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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