Affirmative Action

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1305216931' post='2240499']
I am a distributist so that might color some of my views on the subject.
[/quote]


(Economically I advocate the Austrian school, but obviously there are parts of economic theory on which we will both agree.)

Edited May 12, 2011 by Nihil Obstat

[vee]

white people stink

[vee]

Affirmative action will never really work because it is trying to teach people to love their neighbor but without God. It is in our wounded human nature to hate others for any reason. Whites hate whites, blacks hate blacks, and Asians hate Asians. All have histories of genocide. We can even see where it started ,look at Cain and Able. Only God can fix our wounded hearts.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1305222028' post='2240531']
white people stink
[/quote]
hey, i shower quite regularly!!

[Archaeology cat]

vee8, I like what you said about how AA is trying to make people love each other but without God. The intention is good with trying to get everyone to just see the other person as a person, and to look beyond skin colour and/or cultural background, but a law cannot change hearts.

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1305222736' post='2240534']
hey, i shower quite regularly!!
[/quote]
You should [url="http://www.authenticparenting.info/2010/09/smelly-white-men.html"]read this[/url].

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1305223132' post='2240540']
vee8, I like what you said about how AA is trying to make people love each other but without God. The intention is good with trying to get everyone to just see the other person as a person, and to look beyond skin colour and/or cultural background, but a law cannot change hearts.


You should [url="http://www.authenticparenting.info/2010/09/smelly-white-men.html"]read this[/url].
[/quote]

[vee]

[quote]While they might not reek of dust and sweat and jungle moisture,"[/quote]

"jungle moisture" thats what Im gonna call BO from now on, unless its not BO...

[havok579257]

[quote name='MagiDragon' timestamp='1305214249' post='2240476']
So essentially you're in favor of small mom and pop stores too small to make major upgrades subsidizing larger stores that can afford to upgrade their facilities?

Down with the little guy!
[/quote]


so your with an organization getting "FREE" money but not having to follow the rules of the person giving the "FREE" money? take breaks are "FREE" money given by the government. the government does not have to give people "FREE" money. they choose to. no where in the bill of rights or constitution does it you are entitles to tax breaks.

i believe if the government is going to give you "FREE" money, then they have a right to set up some basic standards for your business. if you don't want the government having any say in your business, then don't take the "FREE" money. simple as that.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1305291521' post='2240806']
so your with an organization getting "FREE" money but not having to follow the rules of the person giving the "FREE" money? take breaks are "FREE" money given by the government. the government does not have to give people "FREE" money. they choose to. no where in the bill of rights or constitution does it you are entitles to tax breaks.

i believe if the government is going to give you "FREE" money, then they have a right to set up some basic standards for your business. if you don't want the government having any say in your business, then don't take the "FREE" money. simple as that.
[/quote]

Actually tax breaks are not free money. They are the just confiscating less of your own money.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1305292280' post='2240814']
Actually tax breaks are not free money. They are the just confiscating less of your own money.
[/quote]


that's free money. acording to taxes put in place by the government, a company is supposed to pay so much in taxes. the government steps in and basically tells the irs that this company can pay less then their required amount in taxes.

Edited May 13, 2011 by havok579257

[MithLuin]

I have to agree.

While no one enjoys paying taxes, the government is hardly taking money that belongs to you. It belongs to them. Collecting taxes is a legit function of the gov't.

Now, certainly that can be abused, and unreasonable, unfair or extortionist levels of taxes can be levied. The US' revolution was sparked by (among other things) taxation without representation. Taxes with no ability to ask for an appeal or elect the leaders calling for the taxes were deemed unfair.

But the existence of taxes themselves was not called into question, and even Jesus refused to say that paying taxes to a less-than-just government was unfair. The gov't prints the money...they can ask for it back.





As for small business, I think lots of laws are written with exceptions for businesses under a certain size. For instance, it is mandatory that a company provide six week maternity leave in my state....unless they have fewer than 50 employees within some radius. So, if you're just one little store, and one of your cashiers leaves to have a baby, you don't have to pay maternity leave while she's out or hold her job for her. You can say 'see ya' and hire someone to replace her while she's out.

I think it's fair to recognize that small businesses can't absorb as many costs or share the wealth, but also that larger corporations have responsibilities towards their employees.

Any laws about how buildings should be built tend to have a grandfather clause, so that if your building is already built, the law doesn't apply to you. So, if you can't afford to make the modifications, you won't be affected.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1305296682' post='2240837']

Any laws about how buildings should be built tend to have a grandfather clause, so that if your building is already built, the law doesn't apply to you. So, if you can't afford to make the modifications, you won't be affected.
[/quote]
but the minute you want to make any change, you have to upgrade all your facilities to be in conformity with the law. (at least in my state)

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1305293946' post='2240825']
that's free money. acording to taxes put in place by the government, a company is supposed to pay so much in taxes. the government steps in and basically tells the irs that this company can pay less then their required amount in taxes.
[/quote]


That is not exactly how tax breaks work, but this isn't a place for a lesson on such things. Suffice it to say most taxbreaks that small buisness benifit from are not federal, they are state and local tax breaks. Should a company not be able to benifit from a local property tax break becuase they do not comply with a Federal mandate? What aboutthe right of a locality to local Rule?

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]While no one enjoys paying taxes, the government is hardly taking money that belongs to you. It belongs to them. Collecting taxes is a legit function of the gov't. [/quote]
Of course it belongs to you, the government may well have a right to take a cetian about of your private wealth in order to see to the needs of the community as a whole, but that doesn't suddenly change the fact that it is your private wealth that they are taking, under threat of force.
[quote]
Now, certainly that can be abused, and unreasonable, unfair or extortionist levels of taxes can be levied. The US' revolution was sparked by (among other things) taxation without representation. Taxes with no ability to ask for an appeal or elect the leaders calling for the taxes were deemed unfair. [/quote]


This isn't really the place for a debate on the causes of th Revolutionary War, but the taxes that were being protested were by modern standards, extraordinarily low. The Founders would completely freak out if they saw our current taxes, I am sure that any who made it to heaven are wondering why we have not revolted agian.

[quote]
But the existence of taxes themselves was not called into question, and even Jesus refused to say that paying taxes to a less-than-just government was unfair. The gov't prints the money...they can ask for it back. [/quote]
I think that is an over simplification of that passage, however, I do not dispute the legit right of a government to lay necessary taxes.

Edit: I also don't dispute the right of a government to levy troops in times of need, but that doesn't mean I think people belong to the state.
[quote]As for small business, I think lots of laws are written with exceptions for businesses under a certain size. For instance, it is mandatory that a company provide six week maternity leave in my state....unless they have fewer than 50 employees within some radius. So, if you're just one little store, and one of your cashiers leaves to have a baby, you don't have to pay maternity leave while she's out or hold her job for her. You can say 'see ya' and hire someone to replace her while she's out.

I think it's fair to recognize that small businesses can't absorb as many costs or share the wealth, but also that larger corporations have responsibilities towards their employees.[/quote]
Corporations are also advataged with special rights, the enjoy benifits other buisness do not have, they should have to pay for them in some way.

[quote]Any laws about how buildings should be built tend to have a grandfather clause, so that if your building is already built, the law doesn't apply to you. So, if you can't afford to make the modifications, you won't be affected.[/quote] Until you have to replace the ceiling, then you have to do everything if your building requires any alteration or sometimes even simple repair you have to bring everything up to code... this leads to many buisnesses not making needed improvments, which is also a competitive disadvantage, furthermore, it depends, for example if you take federal money you often have no grandfather clause.

Edited May 13, 2011 by Don John of Austria

[Winchester]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1305213141' post='2240472']
a business shouldn't be forced to alter their business buildings... although if they refuse to make is accessible by government standards, then they should not get ONE single tax break. if they are a small business, they should not get a single small business tax break and not be able to write stuff off on thier taxes.

its a to way street. the government wants business to be accessible to everyone. if a business refuses to make is handicap accessible or refuse to serve a certain race, religion or color, they should be allowed to. although they should not be able to get government money for tax breaks. its only fair. if the government are going to give you money via tax breaks, then you have to adhere to their rules. if not, then pay the full amount of taxes without a single tax break.
[/quote]
Social engineering by money confiscation.

Or you could actually bite he bullet, get a group together on a private basis and boycott businesses that don't allow handicap access.

But that would be work. It's easier to use government power. So let's do that.