Religiosity And Intellgence Quotiants

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1304366663' post='2235901']oh, well then...

have fun with your windmills!!![/quote]Sadly, you are minimizing, a form of denial.[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1304366950' post='2235907']"'I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical,' says the professor."
I could buy that.[/quote]I do too actually, I am glad someone was intelligent enough to read the posting and remember it.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Mr.CatholicCat

[Vincent Vega]

Of course, I've also met religious people who were very intelligent, and irreligious people who were quite...not.

[Amppax]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1304366950' post='2235907']
"'I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical,' says the professor."
I could buy that.
[/quote]

I would agree with this statement, I would just say that the study shows some flaws in the methods used.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1304366784' post='2235903']
No it wouldn't depend on sample size, it depends on standard deviation, and the standard deviation for IQ is 15 points.
[/quote]
Hm... but when we're standardizing the z-score, we need the root of the sample size. [img]http://www.stat.yale.edu/Courses/1997-98/101/zstat.gif[/img]

[Vincent Vega]

Also, the first thing that occured to me as well was how small the variation is (less than 6 points between the highest and lowest mean?) and how worthless IQ is as a manner of measuring intelligence.

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1304367093' post='2235910']Of course, I've also met religious people who were very intelligent, and irreligious people who were quite...not.[/quote]Haven't we all. But keep in mind that the study focuses on trends in the population, the observable and demonstrable trend is more income, social support, education, and intelligence means less religiosity.[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1304367196' post='2235913']Also, the first thing that occured to me as well was how small the variation is (less than 6 points between the highest and lowest mean?) and how worthless IQ is as a manner of measuring intelligence.[/quote]What else would you accept, comrade?

Edited May 2, 2011 by Mr.CatholicCat

[Amppax]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1304367150' post='2235912']
Hm... but when we're standardizing the z-score, we need the root of the sample size. [img]http://www.stat.yale.edu/Courses/1997-98/101/zstat.gif[/img]
[/quote]


true, my bad [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif[/img].

Edited May 2, 2011 by Amppax

[Amppax]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1304367206' post='2235914']
What else would you accept, comrade?
[/quote]

meh, i suppose that i would have to go with intelligence

Edited May 2, 2011 by Amppax

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1304367206' post='2235914']
Haven't we all. But keep in mind that the study focuses on trends in the population, the observable and demonstrable trend is more income, social support, education, and intelligence means less religiosity.What else would you accept, comrade?
[/quote]
I'm not sure. I'm no psychologist nor sociologist so I don't really know what else is out there.

EDIT:
Actually I just reviewed my sources and they agree that IQ is a generally reliable metric for intelligence. Don't know where I got that it was unreliable from...

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1304367462' post='2235917']I think that is just the point, we don't have a measure of intelligence that would allow this study to come up with any meaningful results.[/quote]So you just deny?[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1304367474' post='2235918']I'm not sure. I'm no psychologist nor sociologist so I don't really know what else is out there.

EDIT:
Actually I just reviewed my sources and they agree that IQ is a generally reliable metric for intelligence. Don't know where I got that it was unreliable from...
[/quote][quote][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#Studies_comparing_religious_belief_and_I.Q"]Studies comparing religious belief and I.Q[/url]
Secondly, the authors investigated the link between religiosity and intelligence on a country level. Among the sample of 137 countries, only 23 (17%) had more than 20% of atheists, which constituted “virtually all... higher IQ countries.”[b] The authors reported a correlation of 0.60 between atheism rates and level of intelligence, which is “highly statistically significant.”[/b] This portion of the study uses the same data set as Lynn's work IQ and the Wealth of Nations.[/quote]Understanding that IQ testing doesn't cover all forms of intelligence is important. But even if we use another standard, such as the SAT we find the same.[quote][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#Studies_comparing_religious_belief_and_educational_attainment"][b]Studies comparing religious belief and educational attainment[/b][/url]
In 1975, Norman Poythress studied a sample of 234 US college undergraduates, grouping them into relatively homogeneous religious types based on the similarity of their religious beliefs, and compared their personality characteristics. He found that "Literally-oriented religious Believers did not differ significantly from Mythologically-oriented Believers on measures of intelligence, authoritarianism, or racial prejudice. Religious Believers as a group were found to be significantly less intelligent and more authoritarian than religious Skeptics." He used SAT's as a measure of intelligence for this study.[/quote]

Edited May 2, 2011 by Mr.CatholicCat

[Amppax]

It would be interesting. In my experience (which i will say right know is very limited) a lot of people i know are smart, and a good number of these are atheists. However, the smartest people i know are not. It would be interesting, if as a continuation of the study, we only tested people that tested very highly on IQ for belief. Again, totally based off my own limited personal experience, I may be totally off base.

[Luigi]

Did they have any Benedictines, Dominicans, or Jesuits in the sample group?

[AudreyGrace]

...Not to mention that IQ tests are very unreliable in determining a person's intelligence. They do not take into account varying mental strengths and weaknesses. For example, someone can be a phenomenal writer and yet not be able to do certain math. Intelligence cannot be measured in only one way. In my puny opinion, the most "intelligent" person in the world would be someone who has a great grasp on [u]all[/u] subjects within the world, which would include both science and religion. Not only would they understand such topics, but they would also be able to use their knowledge in a purposeful way.

The Webster's definition for intelligence is: "the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations; the skilled use of reason; the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria."

I know a lot of people who can score sky high on an IQ test, but when it comes to real life circumstances and decision making, they're like this . My brother being one of them. Does he apply his knowledge to various situations and can he use his reason to his utmost advantage? Hardly. An IQ test might say he is intelligent, but in all reality, he is not.

All in all, whenever I see data based on IQ tests, I chuckle.

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1304368641' post='2235929']All in all, whenever I see data based on IQ tests, I chuckle.[/quote]What about the SAT? Is there no measure of intelligence that is acceptable or palatable?

[AudreyGrace]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1304368641' post='2235929']
...Not to mention that IQ tests are very unreliable in determining a person's intelligence. They do not take into account varying mental strengths and weaknesses. For example, someone can be a phenomenal writer and yet not be able to do certain math. Intelligence cannot be measured in only one way. In my puny opinion, the most "intelligent" person in the world would be someone who has a great grasp on [u]all[/u] subjects within the world, which would include both science and religion. Not only would they understand such topics, but they would also be able to use their knowledge in a purposeful way.

The Webster's definition for intelligence is: "the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations; the skilled use of reason; the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria."

I know a lot of people who can score sky high on an IQ test, but when it comes to real life circumstances and decision making, they're like this . My brother being one of them. Does he apply his knowledge to various situations and can he use his reason to his utmost advantage? Hardly. An IQ test might say he is intelligent, but in all reality, he is not.

All in all, whenever I see data based on IQ tests, I chuckle.
[/quote]

edited for this:
PS- my brother is not religious. Incidentally, the valedictorian of my graduating class (the guy is an academic genius) is very, very Christian. In my personal experience, the smarter kids tend to be religious. Maybe that's just a coincidence. Idk.

double edit: i just accidentally hit "reply" instead of "edit"
I would clearly not score high on an IQ test... but I'm normally pretty smart...

Edited May 2, 2011 by AudreyGrace