Evangelisation Needed In The Uk

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1305066381' post='2239831']
All you can do is ask. Sister Michelle is the prioress. (I don't know the name of the vocation director, or if they even have one since the community is small.) Sister Michelle's personal email address is on the Community Web site.

The Community accepted Sadora (Laetitia Crucis), who is blind in one eye, and is legally blind in the other eye. However, Sadora is wonderful and ANY community would be blessed to have her. However, the ND's turned her down after barely talking to her, because they felt that her vision problems would get in the way of "classroom management." However, this turned out to be okay, as Sadora wasn't THAT interested in being a traditional classroom teacher. Actually, Sadora told me one that it was sometmes easier if a commnity turned her down immediately, so she did not waste her time discerning that community.

I have no idea how the community feels about medications (especially since I don't know exactly what medications you take--which is fine--it's none of my business). I've lost track of how long you have to be a resident of the the UK before being covered by UK national health--national health perhaps might make medication costs less of an issue. (But it wouldn't address whether the reasons for the medications are an issue or not.)

However, the Community is small, and relatively poor (not dumpster-diving poor--but they watch their pence). Still, they are sending Sadora to WYD in Madrid. For postulants and novices, they ask a "dowry" of 100 GBP per month, in part to cover health costs. This adds up to USD$6,012 for the three years at today's exchange rates. However, the dowry does not need to be paid all at once--I think it can be paid on a monthly basis--but not positive. I also have no idea whether the dowry is ever negotiable or waived if the funds are not there.

This is unfortunately one issue with a U.S. citizen going to the UK. The costs may higher, possibly MUCH higher.

Mater--You want a religious vocation so much. I continue to pray that God has given you this strong desire because he has a wonderful Community who is waiting for someone just like you.
[/quote]

God bless you. I honestly don't think a UK vocation is in my future. I cannot see myself there because of the fact that the medication I take may not be available there. I haven't checked. I also cannot afford a dowry and neither can my parents, especially because of this recession.

I was so thankful to find a similar order to the Dominican Sisters of St. Joseph in the Sister Servants of the Eternal Word. They do retreat work and some catechesis just like the Dominicans. I know what Sadora means by having communities turn her down. I went through the same thing several times even though I was able to function normally on the medication. I have never wanted to be a traditional classroom teacher also though the Nashville Dominicans are a beautiful community.

[FutureSister2009]

I would totally be up for it but my Order has a main convent in France. Not sure if they have a convent in UK or not. Maybe in the future they will

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1305066381' post='2239831']

For postulants and novices, they ask a "dowry" of 100 GBP per month, in part to cover health costs. This adds up to USD$6,012 for the three years at today's exchange rates. However, the dowry does not need to be paid all at once--I think it can be paid on a monthly basis--but not positive. I also have no idea whether the dowry is ever negotiable or waived if the funds are not there.

This is unfortunately one issue with a U.S. citizen going to the UK. The costs may higher, possibly MUCH higher.

Mater--You want a religious vocation so much. I continue to pray that God has given you this strong desire because he has a wonderful Community who is waiting for someone just like you.
[/quote]


I find this very interesting because I never had any problems financially with being in English convents. Carmelites do not require a dowry, so that was not an issue, and being there on a Religious Worker visa (which has now changed to a Tier 2 Minister of Religion visa), I was covered immediately by National Heath and although I went to the doctor on several occasions for various small things, the convent was never charged for this. I went to the dentist for a cleaning once but this was no more expensive than in the US - in fact less than in Australia!

I haven't checked with the Benedictines whether they require a dowry or not, but if so, I would be very surprised if it had to do with health costs, unless one entered with a specific pre-existing condition that was not covered by National Health for some reason.

I agree with your point Iggy that she should just ask the community up front about any issues of concern. My SD made it clear to me that I had to address all issues in the initial letter of enquiry, such as age and previous novitiates. I would think that health problems should be treated the same way - let the community make it clear from the beginning. And a no doesn't always mean no - sometimes it means "well, we don't usually accept women with [insert condition here] but tell us more about yourself" so I wouldn't be afraid to be completely open and honest with each community. The final decision is in God's hands after all.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1305066381' post='2239831']
I have no idea how the community feels about medications (especially since I don't know exactly what medications you take--which is fine--it's none of my business). I've lost track of how long you have to be a resident of the the UK before being covered by UK national health--national health perhaps might make medication costs less of an issue. (But it wouldn't address whether the reasons for the medications are an issue or not.)
[/quote]
If you are legally staying in the UK for over 6 months, then you are covered by the NHS. You don't have to wait for the 6 months or anything, though. We were covered immediately upon arriving because we had visas for longer than 6 months.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1305275055' post='2240774']
If you are legally staying in the UK for over 6 months, then you are covered by the NHS. You don't have to wait for the 6 months or anything, though. We were covered immediately upon arriving because we had visas for longer than 6 months.
[/quote]

Do they have the same prescription meds there as they do here? That's one thing I was always curious about. When I was planning to become an animal behaviorist, I wanted to move to England so I could be closer to Africa, but I was always worried that they wouldn't be able to prescribe my antidepressant meds and I need the meds for the rest of my life, most likely.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1305282824' post='2240789']
Do they have the same prescription meds there as they do here? That's one thing I was always curious about. When I was planning to become an animal behaviorist, I wanted to move to England so I could be closer to Africa, but I was always worried that they wouldn't be able to prescribe my antidepressant meds and I need the meds for the rest of my life, most likely.
[/quote]


Don't let this worry you at all. The US, Canada, the UK and Australia (and probably most Western countries at least) have the same meds, but perhaps they might be under different brand names in each country. You can always find out the generic name by googling your meds online, but most doctors know the brand as well as generic names and not only do they have little books that tell them this info, but in this day and age, most of them have computers with that info on it!

Some meds need a prescription in one country and not another, for example, in the US, aspirin and codeine mix needs a prescription (called a script in Australia) but here in Oz, we can buy Aspirin and codeine over the counter at the chemist (pharmacist) but they always give one a little speech about its proper use before handing it over! It's effective for strong headaches but they don't want people abusing it of course.

In every country, I have always been able to get whatever meds I needed at the time, but sometimes the doctor would have to find out the generic name first. For example, I used to use a med called Ponstan for menstrual cramps, which is over the counter here, but cheaper if bought on prescription. In the US it was available through prescription only and I think it was called Ponstell.

So, don't let that worry you! There are people on antidepressants in other countries too!

Edited May 13, 2011 by nunsense

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1305283293' post='2240791']
Don't let this worry you at all. The US, Canada, the UK and Australia (and probably most Western countries at least) have the same meds, but perhaps they might be under different brand names in each country. You can always find out the generic name by googling your meds online, but most doctors know the brand as well as generic names and not only do they have little books that tell them this info, but in this day and age, most of them have computers with that info on it!

Some meds need a prescription in one country and not another, for example, in the US, aspirin and codeine mix needs a prescription (called a script in Australia) but here in Oz, we can buy Aspirin and codeine over the counter at the chemist (pharmacist) but they always give one a little speech about its proper use before handing it over! It's effective for strong headaches but they don't want people abusing it of course.

In every country, I have always been able to get whatever meds I needed at the time, but sometimes the doctor would have to find out the generic name first. For example, I used to use a med called Ponstan for menstrual cramps, which is over the counter here, but cheaper if bought on prescription. In the US it was available through prescription only and I think it was called Ponstell.

So, don't let that worry you! There are people on antidepressants in other countries too!
[/quote]

That puts my mind at ease. Now if I realize my vocation is outside the US, I won't be worrying if I can get my medication. I doubt that it is outside the US, but you never know and I'm not ruling anything out.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

When I mentioned a possibly higher cost for a U.S. person to join a Community outside the U.S., I was thinking mostly of higher plane fares for visits home and things like that. Otherwise, I can't see a reason why it would be more expensive.

And, for the Dominican Sisters of St. Joseph, their "dowry" that sounds high when you add up 36 months and translate it to British currency, is really only $165 a month. Costs for room and board ANYWHERE would be more than that. If a woman leaves the Community before taking first vows, any money that has been paid ahead is returned. And, the only reason they ask for the contribution is because the community is poor--it goes directly to pay for living costs. After first vows, no contribution is required. (I've heard of some communities, such as the SSVM's that expect Sisters to continue to bring in a contribution of at least $100 a month, long term. Also, I have heard of a postulant's possessions being taken away when she enters the SSVMs, and not returned if she leaves the Order before first vows. (A good reminder of things to look into before joining ANY Order, and if the questions are not answered openly, or are dismissed as "not holy" etc, that is a red flag to be looked into. It may not be an indication of a problem, but it's always better to know what will be expected.)

I thought the wait was longer to be covered under the British health system for non-citizens. I'm pleased to hear that it is minmal.

And, Mater, at least for Europe and Australia, I have also heard what others have posted, that any medication available in the U.S. will be available there. In fact, many anti-depressant medications were available in Europe before they were approved in the U.S.

[Archaeology cat]

As nunsense said, the drugs may be called something else, but they'll have them here. To give an example of an OTC drug, Tylenol is called paracetemol here.

It's a good thing I didn't have to wait for NHS coverage, since I fell pregnant within 6 months of moving to England.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='StephenFlanagan' timestamp='1305056439' post='2239745']
Yes it was painful, I remember it as though it was yesterday! But since the second Vatican Council the church has suffered a lot and still is suffering the effects of that council.
[/quote]
i would say the Church is suffering the effects of those who misled and misinterpreted (sometimes deliberately) the Council's teachings/documents.

[Studiumecclesiae]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1305310551' post='2240931']
i would say the Church is suffering the effects of those who misled and misinterpreted (sometimes deliberately) the Council's teachings/documents.
[/quote]


Yes, and I think it's very marked in the UK. In convents too. It's too liberal, when you compare it to Spain, France, Italy.
Probably because of protestant influence. Some monasteries are involved with Thai Chi, or Indian practices, others do yoga or things.
I'm not lying, I've seen these in a specific community.

Mortification and penance doesn't seem to be well understood. I know communities like Kirk Edge Carmel still do it very much,
but in lots of communities they will think you're mad if you fast on Fridays, do any physical penance etc;
We need more traditional communities, why would not communities like the Benedictines of Mary Queen of the Apostles come and found in the UK?
The other thing is that they don't take too young vocations (there are a few in the UK who accept young entrants)

I know that in Italy there might be half a dozen strictly enclosed Carmels. In the UK? Two, maybe? Enclosure isn't well understood. That's what frustrated me and made me decide to give up the UK. And my orthodoxy as well.

[TIWW]

Today I have been reading through some old threads that I have not read and saw this one. After thinking about it, I wondered about the issue of history and political influence when it comes to England. Western Europe was primarily and predominantly Catholic, even the Slovakian countries. When Henry the VIII broke with Rome, the whole of history and the Catholic Church there was changed forever. I do not think that the Catholic Church there has ever recovered from this historical event. In the middle ages, the Church was an integral part of the lives of everyone. Like many other Cultures and Religions, for example the Jewish, Hindi & Muslim faiths, there is little distinction between their culture and their religious identity. That was true for Catholic/Christian Europe as well. One wonders if the "Living of one's Faith" can ever become an integral part of the culture there again. I have a dear friend who was from British Columbia, was a Trappist for many years and is now a Benedictine in the US. I was unaware of how there are so few people of Faith in Canada. It just is not a part of their Culture like it is in the US. I was stunned at the lack of churches of any denomination. This has to effect the lack of Vocations the those countries. Curious if anyone else has any input or opinion about this?

[loveofchrist1]

[quote name='Piccoli Fiori JMJ' timestamp='1304519811' post='2236812']

This as well is why Sister started this thread. There is a dire need of evangelism with passion for the Faith, especially in the UK. I believe that bringing back the traditional aspect of our Faith really can reinvigorate the people and help them quiet themselves to hear God's voice calling them. The UK needs passionate defenders and lovers of the Faith. That is what Sister is seeking to come to the UK.
[/quote]

I totally agree with you-here in the UK the tradational aspect of Faith has been replaced with something you will see in a protestant church.
Those traditions of church are treasures and they are a means of which the Holy Spirit plants the seeds of vocations in the hearts of young men and women.

[Studiumecclesiae]

[quote name='loveofchrist1' timestamp='1313345180' post='2287678']

I totally agree with you-here in the UK the tradational aspect of Faith has been replaced with something you will see in a protestant church.
Those traditions of church are treasures and they are a means of which the Holy Spirit plants the seeds of vocations in the hearts of young men and women.
[/quote]
Yes but traditionalistic communities are spreading. Have you heard about the ICKSP coming up in the UK? It's wonderful news, there's going to be lots of young men trying to join them.
http://latinmasshexhamnewcastle.blogspot.com/2011/05/icksp-takes-on-ss-peter-paul-new.html

We need more traditional feminine convents!!! Like in France!

[kg94]

I attended a Come and See weekend hosted by Sister Marianne's community in Derbyshire, and it was a beautiful experience. My enduring memory is the community's lively warmth. I loved spending time with the sisters - everybody seemed to have a great sense of humour and deep affection for one another, and we were laughing all the time. On my first evening in the convent, I happened to mention my favourite hymn, and the community used it to begin Lauds the next day! That just about sums them up, I think.

Prayer is the undercurrent of the convent, and you can feel it. There was a separate house of prayer and solitude at the foot of the garden, complete with a library of spiritual books and one of the loveliest replicas of the San Damiano crucifix that I've ever seen. I spent hours kneeling before it, and Sr Marianne gave us an interesting lesson on all the symbolism in the crucifix. I would recommend these wonderful sisters to anybody who feels drawn to Franciscan spirituality and an active apostolate. I myself feel pulled towards cloistered contemplative life, perhaps as a Poor Clare, but I pray for vocations to the Franciscan Sisters Minoress.

- HH

P.S. They really know how to cook!

 

I'm curious to know more about your experience with FSM as I know the Sisters there quite well, including Sr Marianne. If you wouldn't mind, I would really like to talk to you. Please email me: franciscan.klt@gmail.com 

Thanks. 

God bless!