dominicansoul Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1303620732' post='2231647'] Didn't you get the memo....I'm a big meanie because I assist at an SSPX chapel. I have no standing in the Church.... [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted April 24, 2011 Author Share Posted April 24, 2011 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1303621983' post='2231653'] [/quote] I'm not looking for any consolation. I am perfectly content with where I assist at Holy Mass. Thanks for the concern though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1303622762' post='2231661'] I'm not looking for any consolation. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1303629443' post='2231739'] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1303618700' post='2231632'] The bishops don't belong to the SSPX, their charism is to assist the SSPX and their mission. Once a priest is consecrated a bishop, he becomes a priest of the universal Church. The use of postnominals is simply an honorific. A bishop is at the disposal of the Church. Also, the SSPX don't have parishes, they have chapels. It is a juridical matter. [/quote] I stand somewhat corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1303608651' post='2231591'] What is given for us to do in these situations is to make use of the processes laid out in Redemptionis Sacramentum, and then resign ourselves to be at peace knowing that our obligation has been met. We should hope that people still find truth and the true faith in spite of the novelties that surround them, and hope that the liturgy is restored to its correct practice in every place. When we find ourselves in a bad liturgy, we should resign ourselves to unite to our Lord in any way we can, and hope that others are doing the same; be at peace, those who are entrusted to be guardians of the worship of God to pass down the deposit of the faith correctly will be judged in the end on the job they have done. In many ways the innovations that destroy the spirit of the liturgy in so many places are indeed poisonous to the faith, but God causes water to flow from rocks, and the Catholic faith will continue and endure. It is sad when oppurtunities for beauty are missed and replaced by illicit and banal practices, but the Roman Liturgy is a phoenix, and it shall rise from the ashes one day. I believe the point being made by the anectdotes shared here is this: don't let this trouble you so much that you do not experience Good Friday in a significant way. sadly your liturgy did not do what it ought to have done for you, so supplement with your own pious practices outside of the liturgy, strengthened by the presanctified Eucharist you still recieved despite a tattered liturgy. [/quote] Thanks, Al. Edited April 24, 2011 by Archaeology cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1303608651' post='2231591'] What is given for us to do in these situations is to make use of the processes laid out in Redemptionis Sacramentum, and then resign ourselves to be at peace knowing that our obligation has been met. We should hope that people still find truth and the true faith in spite of the novelties that surround them, and hope that the liturgy is restored to its correct practice in every place. When we find ourselves in a bad liturgy, we should resign ourselves to unite to our Lord in any way we can, and hope that others are doing the same; be at peace, those who are entrusted to be guardians of the worship of God to pass down the deposit of the faith correctly will be judged in the end on the job they have done. In many ways the innovations that destroy the spirit of the liturgy in so many places are indeed poisonous to the faith, but God causes water to flow from rocks, and the Catholic faith will continue and endure. It is sad when oppurtunities for beauty are missed and replaced by illicit and banal practices, but the Roman Liturgy is a phoenix, and it shall rise from the ashes one day. I believe the point being made by the anectdotes shared here is this: don't let this trouble you so much that you do not experience Good Friday in a significant way. sadly your liturgy did not do what it ought to have done for you, so supplement with your own pious practices outside of the liturgy, strengthened by the presanctified Eucharist you still recieved despite a tattered liturgy. [/quote] Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted April 24, 2011 Author Share Posted April 24, 2011 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1303608651' post='2231591'] What is given for us to do in these situations is to make use of the processes laid out in Redemptionis Sacramentum, and then resign ourselves to be at peace knowing that our obligation has been met. We should hope that people still find truth and the true faith in spite of the novelties that surround them, and hope that the liturgy is restored to its correct practice in every place. When we find ourselves in a bad liturgy, we should resign ourselves to unite to our Lord in any way we can, and hope that others are doing the same; be at peace, those who are entrusted to be guardians of the worship of God to pass down the deposit of the faith correctly will be judged in the end on the job they have done. [...] I believe the point being made by the anectdotes shared here is this: don't let this trouble you so much that you do not experience Good Friday in a significant way. sadly your liturgy did not do what it ought to have done for you, so supplement with your own pious practices outside of the liturgy, strengthened by the presanctified Eucharist you still recieved despite a tattered liturgy. [/quote] As I said, I am going to be writing to Father AGAIN. There is not much peace that can be garnered when he willfully doesn't change or correct his liturgies, and justifies them with incorrect theolgoical and liturgical innovative statements.... Our obligation is not to simply resign ourselves to the situation. Our obligation is to continue to take it to the next level if necessary, where this is quickly going. I also disagree that we should simply resign ourselves to the bad liturgy. We have a right to properly celebrated Masses and we should be willing to stand up and say as much. Oh it is troubling. Why can't we have the Mass celebrated consistently in all Catholic Churches. I'm not saying exactly the same, but I am saying consistently. If I go to Mass at your parish, I can guarantee you it is different than what I experience at mine. Which is different than the parish I went to while in Detroit. That is not good. And you're right, it is sad. BTW, I didn't receive Holy Communion. I don't receive Holy Communion everytime I go to Mass. Essentially you said that I should just write a letter, then resign myself to the tattered liturgy and then go home and pray harder....I won't do that. I will speak up. And I will post about it here, because here is where I can vent about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1303594805' post='2231491'] My Good Friday was different for me. I normally ask for the day off, so I can pray; go to the Mass of the Pre-Sanctified, and veneration. I asked for the day off about 2 weeks ago. Filled the little admin form out for the day off, and the CEO's secretary said she would take it in for him to approve. She then stopped by my office and asked me why I wanted the day off. This threw me a bit. So I just looked at her with a 'wha' expression on my face. Apparently, the CEO wanted to know if I was going to be out of town, if I had planned something (like going out of town with the family, rented a hotel room, etc) I said no, I just wanted the day off for religious reasons, I wanted to pray and go to Mass. She then asked if I was participating in the Mass in any way. (at the time, I was thrown way off by the questioning...cause like, i would just like one day off (I get 15 for the year)) I told her no, I was just going to pray and be with our Lord. She offered/suggested that I say I was in the Mass; that it would help my chances of getting the day off. I really appreciated her 'wanting to work with me'; but I declined and said she didn't have to do that. A few days later, my vacation form in on my desk, unsigned (as of yet), with a note from the CEO saying "see me". When he was free, I went in to see him. He was busy packing for a trip to China, I handed him the form and said, 'you wanted to see me?' and he said "how can i give you the day off without anyone knowing?" (this is one of our very very busy times of the year, so vacation in April is a no-no). I kinda shrugged my shoulders and said, "well, don't tell anyone". Quite honestly, I was a bit perturbed that instead of just saying, "sorry, I just can't give you the day off", he tried to put it off on me. He just smiled and handed back the unsigned form. I said, 'well, thanks anyways'. Afterwards, the very caring secretary asked me how it went, and i shook my head 'no'. She said, 'just go anyway; he'll be in China.' We shared a laugh and told her how I like how she thinks. So, Good Friday comes, and I go to work. The secretary stops by my office and says, 'hey, what are you doing here?'. I say, "i work here. " We laugh..she's a neat lady. I had planned to go to the Mass of the Pre-Sanctified at lunch...making the best of a bad situation. I would have liked to stay through the ninth hour; as is/was my custom. But do what you can, right? So..we are in the morning meeting and somehow someone in production messed something up..all which is inconsequential to this post other than to say since I had the only company car that day, it needed to be used to make a delivery. At the very time I was going to lunch. So I figured, I would deliver it. I had to make sure I could deliver it early, which I could. So I am feeling good. Before I go any further, it is really good to know that I cannot go from point A to point B without getting lost. So, I'm off.. I had SOMEONE ELSE get the directions for me. why i did not get them myself, i do not know. So... needless to say, I get lost. I am calling the office..as my GPS just broke. I am getting a headache, I'm mad, I'm hungry. At a stop light, I look up and say "come on, man" What should have been 45 minutes to and 45 minutes back turned into 2 hours to and an hour back. You don't even want to know how I pulled off getting lost on the way back home. So. I get back in the office work a few hours, go home. We went to the fish fry. Came home and watched Passion of the Christ. Last year Peyton could read some of it, but it moved fast for her, this year was not a problem. So we are watching it, and I glance over at Peyton, and I see her crying. very very softly. We had the TV up loud, so i would not have heard her cry. I snuggle her up to me and look to her as if to say, 'what's wrong'. And she just started to bawl and buried her head in my chest and said, "He just loves us so much, Daddy!" I teared up and said, 'yes, sweetie, He does'. It was one of the best Good Fridays ever. [/quote] I like this story much better than the first one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1303596879' post='2231510'] I loved my Good Friday Liturgy also... ...i didn't have time to pay too much attention to the rubrics and how things are placed on the empty altar, or if the priest was doing such and such correctly... ...instead, my heart and mind were totally consumed with the great Sacrifice Jesus made for me...and I was left in awe and totally speechless... [/quote] win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1303687558' post='2231959'] BTW, I didn't receive Holy Communion. I don't receive Holy Communion everytime I go to Mass. Essentially you said that I should just write a letter, then resign myself to the tattered liturgy and then go home and pray harder....I won't do that. I will speak up. And I will post about it here, because here is where I can vent about it. [/quote] Redemptionis Sacramentum, Mr. Cam, does not mean just one letter. It means a letter to the priest first, then the Bishop, then Rome. then be at peace and know that God will sort it out in the end. receive the grace from the good liturgies you are able to go to and pray that everyone will one day get a good liturgy [spoiler](and before anyone talks of schismatic blah blah blahs that must not be named on this site, good liturgy can exist outside of licit canonical structures, that doesn't mean it's good for anyone to go to those illicit canonical structures, but following the lead of the Holy Father one must be gracious and extend a hand especially to laymen who have incurred no ecclesiastical penalty for attending those masses and are therefore, indeed, Catholics in good standing, even if they are going to illicit masses by priests who are not priests in good standing because they are suspended a divinis. and to Cam: I was personally perturbed after having stood up for you before based upon your history and record only to be made to look wrong when I suggested some leeway on legitimate opinions because your attitudes were indeed everything those against you feared that they were. but such is life, and you must follow your conscience, but be it known that my previous assessment of your attitude was pretty [b]deficient[/b]) [/spoiler] ...and also pray that in the meantime people will be receiving grace and deepening into the true faith despite the problems of the liturgy. or you could huff and puff and blow his rectory down, but that wouldn't really accomplish anything. yeah I don't receive all the time either, I was lucky enough to go to a Church that offered confession before mass on Good Friday so that I could go (and to anyone with the common misconception out there: yes, this is allowed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) Meh. Nvm. This is not worth the effort. Edited April 25, 2011 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1303703188' post='2232096'] Meh. Nvm. This is not worth the effort. [/quote] That is just what I thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1303687558' post='2231959'] As I said, I am going to be writing to Father AGAIN. There is not much peace that can be garnered when he willfully doesn't change or correct his liturgies, and justifies them with incorrect theolgoical and liturgical innovative statements.... Our obligation is not to simply resign ourselves to the situation. Our obligation is to continue to take it to the next level if necessary, where this is quickly going. I also disagree that we should simply resign ourselves to the bad liturgy. We have a right to properly celebrated Masses and we should be willing to stand up and say as much. Oh it is troubling. Why can't we have the Mass celebrated consistently in all Catholic Churches. I'm not saying exactly the same, but I am saying consistently. If I go to Mass at your parish, I can guarantee you it is different than what I experience at mine. Which is different than the parish I went to while in Detroit. That is not good. And you're right, it is sad. BTW, I didn't receive Holy Communion. I don't receive Holy Communion everytime I go to Mass. Essentially you said that I should just write a letter, then resign myself to the tattered liturgy and then go home and pray harder....I won't do that. I will speak up. And I will post about it here, because here is where I can vent about it. [/quote] CC the priest's bishop. Also, go to the parishes website, if they have one. See if the priest has an email address and email him in addition. A parish me and my wife were at years ago had some abuses in the mass that most people wouldn't recognize. I wrote the pastor a letter, but got no response. Someone at the parish said he uses email regularly, so I emailed him my letter and he did reply. More than likely this priest will not be converted as a result of your letter. But as I told my wife, we need to address such things and force the priest to think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1303736282' post='2232426'] CC the priest's bishop. Also, go to the parishes website, if they have one. See if the priest has an email address and email him in addition. A parish me and my wife were at years ago had some abuses in the mass that most people wouldn't recognize. I wrote the pastor a letter, but got no response. Someone at the parish said he uses email regularly, so I emailed him my letter and he did reply. More than likely this priest will not be converted as a result of your letter. But as I told my wife, we need to address such things and force the priest to think about it. [/quote] That's exactly it, isn't it? They [the clergy] don't want to address these issues, but we need to force them to do so anyway. It's our right to do so, and in addition we need to stand up for beautiful and sacred worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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