How Are Pro Life People For The Death Penalty?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1303953944' post='2234091']
Please, you know that's not what I'm saying. One side says "here's a stat that shows the death penalty to be racist," to which kamiller said "here's a stat that proves the death penalty is actually not racist." I understand why you and kamiller objected. . . . [Edited by Socrates for sake of brevity]


That's all I was saying. This is a freakin forum I'm not in the process of writing a dissertation on the matter.[/quote]
Didn't stop you from writing a doctoral dissertation-length diatribe on here . . .

Remember, brevity is the soul of wit.


[quote] Unlike yours seems to be, my mind is actually not made up and hell, I was interested in exchanging ideas, theories, and possibilities because I find the subject matter interesting. I didn't know that I must have an iron-clad impregnable argument before I could engage in discussion. Guess I didn't read the rules well enough.

And please tell me where to find my sweeping condemnation of the death penalty as racist. I do not see it. In fact I said quite the opposite more than once. All I know is racism still exists as a pervading force that often goes unseen. I assume you don't quite agree. I'm not here to convince you of this, but because I believe it to be true, I merely wanted to swap some ideas about how this might, or might not, be playing out in our justice system. [/quote]

To tell the truth, I'm not really interested in extremely hypothetical speculation about whether or not death row prosecutors might possibly perhaps be racist deep down inside.

Whether or not prosecutors might or might not have interior racist motivations is quite frankly impossible to know, and its dubious anyone would admit to it if they did. And quite frankly, such hypothesizing is totally irrelevant.

The fact is there is simply no compelling factual evidence that the penal system regarding death row in America currently unjustly disproportionately targets black convicts for execution, as is commonly asserted as incontrovertable fact by opponents of capital punishment.

Hypothesizing that is itself caused by racism against the victims seems rather pointless and silly. (Too many blacks on death row = racism, too few blacks on death row = racism. Quite a catch-22 there.)

There just isn't compelling factual evidence that the death penalty in America is primarily or largely racially motivated.
And with regards to accusations of racism, we shouldn't presume prosecutors guilty until proven innocent.


Again, the death row statistics not support the accusations of across-the-board racism with regards to death row. The accusations of racism look more like the common tactic of playing the race card, where the emotionally volatile charges of racism against one's opponents are used to end any rational objective discussion of the issue at hand. If one disagrees, he has to spend all his time fending off labels of "racism."


[quote]If it is inconceivable for you to understand how a person might be sympathetic to racial-bias unless said person is a liberal p-c hippie then whatever. That's your deal.[/quote]
Note that I never used the words "liberal," "pc," or "hippie" in this thread.
But if you dope-suckers really must insist . . . (jk)

[quote]And if you're unwilling to partake in some theoretical discussion (distinct from debating, which I don't remember me ever doing) with people like me that's A-OK. But don't try to caricature my "argument" as some bumbling idiot tripping over his own words and blissfully unaware of his own incompetence when I never ever claimed I had a solid argument in the first place.
[/quote]
Since the accusations of killing people on account of race are very serious, I think any discussion should be rooted in facts, not in empty hypotheses and speculation about possible sinister hidden motives.

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='MagiDragon' timestamp='1304025255' post='2234331']
Honestly, I think there are a lot of people who see everything as being racially related, and the guys on here are just sick of that mentality. It wasn't anything personal.

Peace,
Joe
[/quote]

EVERYTHING IS PERSONAL


[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1304033766' post='2234374']
Didn't stop you from writing a doctoral dissertation-length diatribe on here . . .

Remember, brevity is the soul of wit.[/quote]

To be honest I was gonna go back and delete the post entirely but it was apparently too late to do so. It's rather incoherent bumbling idiot like.


[quote]Note that I never used the words "liberal," "pc," or "hippie" in this thread.
But if you dope-suckers really must insist . . . (jk)[/quote]

I could tell you were thinking it


[quote]Since the accusations of killing people on account of race are very serious, I think any discussion should be rooted in facts, not in empty hypotheses and speculation about possible sinister hidden motives.[/quote]

That's really not what I was getting that, talking about hidden motives of individual prosecutors etc etc. I just thought of all the high-profile cases involving the death penalty or no, and realized most of the time the victims were white (and usually the offenders as well) so I thought [i]if[/i] the system is racist I guess said system wouldn't take the deaths of black victims that seriously, so maybe that's why not many blacks are on death row. Then I was curious about what the demographics look like for victims, rather than for the perpetrators

It was merely a thought. If you don't wanna play with hypotheticals and whatnot that's understandable, I just didn't like how you took off loling at an "argument" I didn't even make and said croutons like I must think more black people should be on death row . Is that stuff necessary? I ended up explaining myself using way too many words, (which I"m honestly surprised anyone would read through) because it seemed like you were gloating of over the corpse of an argument that was laid to rest by a few succinct facts that anyone besides an overly-emotional liberal could understand WHEN I'S NEVAR EVEN MADE AN ARGUMENT IN THE FURST PLACE.

OK so my feelings got hurt and I cried and wrote a novel to explain how offended I was 'cause that's what us bleeding hearts do . JK, but I do feel silly for that last post because it's like I kept going on and on and I couldn't stop and I write something and then delete it and then I'd be like "well I also need to explain this" and then i figured "well if i don't add this paragraph then this whole post is worthless and he totally won't get it" and then I started thinking about M-theory and if at the beginning there was a quantum field with a really low energy level maybe this is just like the 3748234th universe to come out of it and maybe there's another version of me in another universe somewhere who's writing the same thing but differently because the entropy is too high so all of her molecules are ripping apart or maybe there's another universe that came after ours but we don't know and maybe one day it's gonna crash into us and everything will go kaboom but more importantly Swahili is the most common of the African languages did you know that there are hundreds of languages on the African continent alone and before there even might have been thousands?

This proves the dp is racist

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1304050153' post='2234461']
JK, but I do feel silly for that last post because it's like I kept going on and on and I couldn't stop and I write something and then delete it and then I'd be like "well I also need to explain this" and then i figured "well if i don't add this paragraph then this whole post is worthless and he totally won't get it" and then I started thinking about M-theory and if at the beginning there was a quantum field with a really low energy level maybe this is just like the 3748234th universe to come out of it and maybe there's another version of me in another universe somewhere who's writing the same thing but differently because the entropy is too high so all of her molecules are ripping apart or maybe there's another universe that came after ours but we don't know and maybe one day it's gonna crash into us and everything will go kaboom but more importantly Swahili is the most common of the African languages did you know that there are hundreds of languages on the African continent alone and before there even might have been thousands?
[/quote]

That's a sentence I'd like to see diagrammed....

[Amppax]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1304055040' post='2234489']
That's a sentence I'd like to see diagrammed....
[/quote]

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='LinaSt.Cecilia2772' timestamp='1303168445' post='2229954']
Okay this is one thing i've noticed about alot of politicians and people. Alot of them say they are pro life, but they are ALL FOR the death penalty. Aren't people who are pro life supposed to keep the sacredness of human life no matter what age they are and no matter what crimes they have or havent committed? This makes absolutely no sense to me what so ever. I believe that if you are pro life, you are against both abortion and the death penalty. Not just one, which is mainly abortion. I sometimes even see practicing Catholics have this mind set, when they clearly state that they are pro life. Me being a practicing Catholic, i am against both, and it's beyond me why people think that the death penalty is right. A person on death row has the same amount of life as an unborn baby does. Plain and Simple. No matter what crimes they have committed, they are still human life, and we should respect that as much as we do unborn human life.
[/quote]


I never say I am prolife unless dealing with people who are not to bright... I say i am against abortion. Let me be clear, I am not really for the death penalty as it is used in our country, but I have no problem what so ever with the death penalty itself.

Abortion is the murder of an innocent human life. The use of the death penalty is the killing ( killling in itself is not immoral) of a guilty ( at least believed to be guilty) person. A person guilty of a crime punishable by death has already forfieted his right to life. ( look up the principle of forfieture under Natural Law). His death could also fall under Double Effect.

As A Catholic I am not bound to reject the death penalty, and I do not see any theological or philosophical reason to do so, the same is not true of abortion. They are [i]NOT [/i]analgous.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1303168824' post='2229957']
first, abortion and death penalty are not on equal footing. the Popes and bishops have said so.

second, the Church does provide recourse to the death penalty:


do you think all countries/societies are as 'civilized' as the U.S. is?
[/quote]



Well lil red....I think the average aboriginal tribe in the amazon is as civilized as we are.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1304946464' post='2239020']
Well lil red....I think the average aboriginal tribe in the amazon is as civilized as we are.
[/quote]
the [url="http://www.amazon.com/"]amazon[/url]?

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1304949054' post='2239026']
the [url="http://www.amazon.com/"]amazon[/url]?
[/quote]


Yes the Amazon, the only place in the world I know of with people living in a completely uncontacted state.

[Groo the Wanderer]

The death penalty should be reserved for those who resurrect 2 year old threads....

the method should be something like severe lice infestation of the pits...or being forced to watch Brady Bunch reruns for 9 days straight...

Edited May 9, 2011 by Groo the Wanderer