infinitelord1 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) Since marriage is between man and woman, and you don't need a priest to get married... 1) How is it exactly that the man and woman marry? I guess this can be similar to "when are you officially a couple?". It seems to me that once you become a mature adult there is no longer the "wanna be my boyfriend/girlfriend" mentality anymore. I think the relationship just naturally progresses to the point where you start referring to your lover as "my boyfriend/girlfriend" to your peers and family. Plus you tell each other "I Love You" etc. Its more of an assumed thing. But how does this marriage thing work? Do you both decide that you are married? Does the marriage occur when the man asks the woman if she will marry him...followed by a "Yes"? 2) When can you start sleeping with your husband/wife? 3) If you marry without a priest or legal contract....then how do you divorce? 4) What is the difference between Non-Sacramental Marriage and Fornication? Edited April 18, 2011 by infinitelord1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1303111704' post='2229719'] Since marriage is between man and woman, and you don't need a priest to get married... 1) How is it exactly that the man and woman marry? I guess this can be similar to "when are you officially a couple?". It seems to me that once you become a mature adult there is no longer the "wanna be my boyfriend/girlfriend" mentality anymore. I think the relationship just naturally progresses to the point where you start referring to your lover as "my boyfriend/girlfriend" to your peers and family. Plus you tell each other "I Love You" etc. Its more of an assumed thing. But how does this marriage thing work? Do you both decide that you are married? Does the marriage occur when the man asks the woman if she will marry him...followed by a "Yes"? 2) When can you start sleeping with your husband/wife? 3) If you marry without a priest or legal contract....then how do you divorce? 4) What is the difference between Non-Sacramental Marriage and Fornication? [/quote] 1) Bridegroom and bride must come freely with complete consent and give/say their vows to each other before God. The priest is the witness for the Church. 2) I believe, technically after the vows. 3) Divorce is not of the Church, but rather a civil declarations. If the married couple did not register with the State, they are not of married status with the State. 4) For a marriage to be Sacramental, the bridegroom and bride must be baptized Christians. Fornication is never permissible outside or inside of marriage. i.e. Never. ever should we fornicate!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1303125893' post='2229738'] 1) Bridegroom and bride must come freely with complete consent and give/say their vows to each other before God. The priest is the witness for the Church. 2) I believe, technically after the vows. 3) Divorce is not of the Church, but rather a civil declarations. If the married couple did not register with the State, they are not of married status with the State. 4) For a marriage to be Sacramental, the bridegroom and bride must be baptized Christians. Fornication is never permissible outside or inside of marriage. i.e. Never. ever should we fornicate!!!! [/quote] Actually the marriage is not complete until consummation. After that it is indissoluble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1303138694' post='2229778'] Actually the marriage is not complete until consummation. After that it is indissoluble [/quote] I'm not sure what you mean by 'complete', but a marriage is valid in which both parties have expressed their free consent to be married through the exchange of vows, even though they have not consummated their union. However, a marriage that has not been consummated may be dissolved by the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1303139533' post='2229780'] I'm not sure what you mean by 'complete', but a marriage is valid in which both parties have expressed their free consent to be married through the exchange of vows, even though they have not consummated their union. However, a marriage that has not been consummated may be dissolved by the Church. [/quote] Well then you know what I mean by complete. The marriage is not fully sacramental (complete) until its been consummated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1303125893' post='2229738'] 1) Bridegroom and bride must come freely with complete consent and give/say their vows to each other before God. The priest is the witness for the Church. 2) I believe, technically after the vows. 3) Divorce is not of the Church, but rather a civil declarations.[b] If the married couple did not register with the State, they are not of married status with the State. [/b] 4) For a marriage to be Sacramental, the bridegroom and bride must be baptized Christians. Fornication is never permissible outside or inside of marriage. i.e. Never. ever should we fornicate!!!! [/quote] Actually a marriage is recognized by the state after seven years, its then considered a common law marriage and liable to all civil regulations, including needing a divorce to seperate, properties become mutual at this point as well as any assets and that is why you need a legal divorce to end the marriage. ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1303158209' post='2229907'] Actually a marriage is recognized by the state after seven years, its then considered a common law marriage and liable to all civil regulations, including needing a divorce to seperate, properties become mutual at this point as well as any assets and that is why you need a legal divorce to end the marriage. ed [/quote] I think that actually depends on the state. I don't believe all states have common law marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1303111704' post='2229719'] Since marriage is between man and woman, and you don't need a priest to get married... 1) How is it exactly that the man and woman marry? [/quote] By professing marriage vows to each other in the company of witnesses and the Church. An ordained minister (deacon, priest, or bishop) is still required to serve as the Church's witness. [quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1303111704' post='2229719'] 2) When can you start sleeping with your husband/wife?[/quote] After professing marriage vows. [quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1303111704' post='2229719'] 3) If you marry without a priest or legal contract....then how do you divorce?[/quote] You can't. [quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1303111704' post='2229719'] 4) What is the difference between Non-Sacramental Marriage and Fornication? [/quote] Only a baptized man and woman can be married sacramentally, however fornication is defined as sex outside of marriage -- not necessarily a sacramental marriage. Obviously Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and anyone else who believes in the institution of marriage would be encouraged to reserve sexual intimacy for marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1303158209' post='2229907'] Actually a marriage is recognized by the state after seven years, its then considered a common law marriage and liable to all civil regulations, including needing a divorce to seperate, properties become mutual at this point as well as any assets and that is why you need a legal divorce to end the marriage. ed [/quote] The State is not proactive in seeking such relationships. It is only when one or both of the parties pursue such a [font=Tahoma][size=2]affirmation [/size][/font]from the State. Kinda like the State presumes there is no 'marriage' until otherwise proven.[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/crazy.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' timestamp='1303183668' post='2230052'] By professing marriage vows to each other in the company of witnesses and the Church. An ordained minister (deacon, priest, or bishop) is still required to serve as the Church's witness. After professing marriage vows. You can't. Only a baptized man and woman can be married sacramentally, however fornication is defined as sex outside of marriage -- not necessarily a sacramental marriage. Obviously Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and anyone else who believes in the institution of marriage would be encouraged to reserve sexual intimacy for marriage. [/quote] 1) So you DO need a priest, deacon, or bishop to get married? 2) If you leave your wife permanently and get remarried then it is considered adultery since you can't divorce your first wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 [quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1303356145' post='2230768'] 1) So you DO need a priest, deacon, or bishop to get married?[/quote] 1630 The priest (or deacon) who assists at the celebration of a marriage receives the consent of the spouses in the name of the Church and gives the blessing of the Church. The presence of the Church's minister (and also of the witnesses) visibly expresses the fact that marriage is an ecclesial reality. An ordained minister isn't strictly needed for a man and woman to contract a valid marriage, but the minister is needed to celebrate the Rite of Marriage. On a practical level, it means that a baptized Protestant couple could be sacramentally married by virtue of the vows they made to each other. [quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1303356145' post='2230768'] 2) If you leave your wife permanently and get remarried then it is considered adultery since you can't divorce your first wife? [/quote] That's when a judgment must be made about the validity of the first marriage. If it's valid, remarriage is impossible, so it would be adultery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted April 24, 2011 Author Share Posted April 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='LouisvilleFan' timestamp='1303540291' post='2231331'] 1630 The priest (or deacon) who assists at the celebration of a marriage receives the consent of the spouses in the name of the Church and gives the blessing of the Church. The presence of the Church's minister (and also of the witnesses) visibly expresses the fact that marriage is an ecclesial reality. An ordained minister isn't strictly needed for a man and woman to contract a valid marriage, but the minister is needed to celebrate the Rite of Marriage. On a practical level, it means that a baptized Protestant couple could be sacramentally married by virtue of the vows they made to each other. That's when a judgment must be made about the validity of the first marriage. If it's valid, remarriage is impossible, so it would be adultery. [/quote] Very Interesting. Im not sure if Im understanding your first answer very much. It seems that by having witnesses the marriage is a proven reality thus impossible to annul? and by not having witnesses there is no evidence of the marriage in which case can be annuled? Am I on the right track? So you can have a valid marriage without witnesses and a minister? Edited April 24, 2011 by infinitelord1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 [quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1303608209' post='2231589'] Very Interesting. Im not sure if Im understanding your first answer very much. It seems that by having witnesses the marriage is a proven reality thus impossible to annul? and by not having witnesses there is no evidence of the marriage in which case can be annuled? Am I on the right track? So you can have a valid marriage without witnesses and a minister? [/quote] The presence of witnesses cannot possibly guarantee against an invalid marriage, because such nebulous factors as immaturity and hidden intentions can cause it to be so. All the witnesses in the world can't help that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted April 24, 2011 Author Share Posted April 24, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1303608838' post='2231593'] The presence of witnesses cannot possibly guarantee against an invalid marriage, because such nebulous factors as immaturity and hidden intentions can cause it to be so. All the witnesses in the world can't help that. [/quote] Ok I understand. So in cases like when someone marries someone because they have lots of money...that is a case that can be annuled...since they have some sort of hidden agenda going into the marriage. But other cases where both people are serious in the marriage...they cannot get an annulment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 [quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1303613747' post='2231603'] Ok I understand. So in cases like when someone marries someone because they have lots of money...that is a case that can be annuled...since they have some sort of hidden agenda going into the marriage. But other cases where both people are serious in the marriage...they cannot get an annulment. [/quote] Ah...... well that would have to be examined closer. Gross immaturity could be argued. One prototypical example would be a couple in which one of the two didn't intend to be open to life at the time of marriage, but kept this from the other party. That circumstance would invalidate the marriage. Another good example is those situations where a man gets his girlfriend pregnant, and the girl's family forces him to marry her, perhaps under threat of harm. In that case full consent was lacking as he was coerced, and the marriage is invalid. However, in these cases the marriage can be validated at a later time, which is of course very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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