Selah Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 One time during the confirmation service, when my grandmother was younger, these two ladies behind her kept making noise...not really clapping, but being just rude and obnoxious during the service. She turned around and yelled, "How in the hell would you like to shut the hell up!" Probably wasn't the...most...reverent way of doing that, but they shut up the rest of the service! So, win win...I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 [quote name='Selah' timestamp='1303419935' post='2230927'] One time during the confirmation service, when my grandmother was younger, these two ladies behind her kept making noise...not really clapping, but being just rude and obnoxious during the service. She turned around and yelled, "How in the hell would you like to shut the hell up!" Probably wasn't the...most...reverent way of doing that, but they shut up the rest of the service! So, win win...I guess. [/quote] bwahahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1303193277' post='2230098'] Why hasn't anybody commented on if they agree with me on this or not? I need support or denouncement. I'll take either. [/quote] Support +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1303418436' post='2230923'] Yes, thank you. It is incredibly clear that we should not applaud for [b]human achievement[/b]. This argument ended back on page 1. We are now on page 5. Now we're discussing applause for reasons [b]other than[/b] human achievement. Thanks. [/quote] Still not appropriate. The point the Holy Father was pretty clear that clapping for whatever reason takes away from the sacrificial action and renders it something akin to the human. The Mass is not about the actions or the intended actions of any one person, regardless of the nobility of said action. Clapping is not an appropriate expression of appreication for any action of the Mass. The point he's making in the book is specifically regarding liturgical dance, but as has been shown here, it can apply to other occurences. Changing something even if for the good of the Church, or bringing something back in line with what the Mass intended is not worthy of applause, it is an expectation. It is like saying that we should clap everytime a person stops at a stop sign or everytime a child fulfills his chores. So, to clap because the new pastor is going to bring the Mass back to something that is proper is commendable, but if the parish is clapping, they are clapping for the priest and his actions and it is still on a human level. There is nothing holy in that. To celebrate the priests actions can be done after Mass in the hall over coffee and pie, not during the homily. Really, the priest shouldn't be preaching about that stuff anyways, he should be preaching the Gospel. To make a statement about how things are going to be done can be made after Holy Communion or can be expressed in the bulletin, or can be stated at a "town hall" meeting. The homily is for the preaching to and teaching of his parish. Finally, as an action which happened within the Mass, show me the rubric where it says that the faithful should be clapping at anything? Do the red, say the black. So, no clapping is not appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 [quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1303415948' post='2230902'] A good number of faithful Catholics lost their tags for less. [/quote] Methinks you only hear one side of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1303422542' post='2230945'] So, no clapping is not appropriate. [/quote] Thank you, I understand your points and agree. Can you explain to me why the pope was smiling during the applause when he celebrated mass here in the U.S.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Our priest sometimes starts us clapping, like when we welcome people into the church. << Just like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1303422825' post='2230950'] Thank you, I understand your points and agree. Can you explain to me why the pope was smiling during the applause when he celebrated mass here in the U.S.? [/quote] Have you never smiled when you were disgusted with anything? I don't know, I'm not a mind reader. Just because the Pope smiled, doesn't mean that he approves. Perhaps he was feining appreciation....but I refuse to speculate any further. I will simply point you back to the rubrics. If it's not in the rubrics, it shouldn't be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 What about this document from the USCCB website which has a place for applause during the liturgy? [quote]After the prayer of blessing, each catechist may be presented with a Bible, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and/or a certificate of commissioning.[b] If desirable, the congregation may signify its support by applause[/b], an acclamation, or an appropriate hymn.[/quote] http://www.usccb.org/catecheticalsunday/2010/commissioning-service.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1303423723' post='2230962'] What about this document from the USCCB website which has a place for applause during the liturgy? http://www.usccb.org/catecheticalsunday/2010/commissioning-service.pdf [/quote] The USCCB has no authority to make any pronouncement without the approval from the Holy See. They are not a governing body. I don't see where there is any [i]recognitio[/i] from the Holy See... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1303423530' post='2230958'] I will simply point you back to the rubrics. If it's not in the rubrics, it shouldn't be done. [/quote] Laughing at a funny comment the priests makes during the homily is not in the rubrics either. Do you advocate that priests do not display humor, or do you simply advocate that we not laugh at their jokes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1303423723' post='2230962'] Laughing at a funny comment the priests makes during the homily is not in the rubrics either. [/quote] No, but clapping isn't on the same level. Please don't be absurd. As a matter of personal note, I rarely laugh at Mass, regardless of the joking; it isn't supposed to be a jovial moment, it is supposed to be a solemn moment. Edited April 21, 2011 by Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1303424363' post='2230975'] No, but clapping isn't on the same level. Please don't be absurd. [/quote] Absurd? This point is[b] far[/b] from absurd. Laughing, in my opinion, is way less reverent than clapping. I don't understand how you can make a [i]"it's not in the rubrics"[/i] argument when you selectively exclude certain actions based on your personal opinion of what is or isn't acceptable. You say clapping isn't allow because it is not in the rubrics, but you say laughing out loud during the liturgy is allowed, yet, it is not in the rubrics either. You confuse me. You really do. [quote]As a matter of personal note, I rarely laugh at Mass, regardless of the joking; it isn't supposed to be a jovial moment, it is supposed to be a solemn moment. [/quote] And I rarely clap at mass. Yet, you imply I am wrong for the one time I clapped, but you were not in violation those rare times you laughed. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 1382 “The Mass is at the same time, and inseparably, the sacrificial memorial in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated and the sacred banquet of communion with the Lord’s body and blood. But the celebration of the Eucharistic sacrifice is wholly directed toward the intimate union of the faithful with Christ through communion. To receive communion is to receive Christ himself who has offered himself for us.” Given that the celebration of the Eucharistic sacrifice, a.k.a. the Holy Mass, is *wholly directed* towards worshipping God, we see right away that applause has no place within it. Clapping is not worship. Applause is a secular response to entertainment which expresses appreciation. We do not applaud God. The Body and Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ is present in the Tabernacle or on the altar during Mass, and He is present for us to worship. There is no other purpose for the Mass. Applause is utterly foreign in the context of worship; it is appropriate to recognize the talents or achievements of another person. It is not reverent, it is not solemn, and it is not an act of worship. In any situation during Mass where one is tempted to applaud, a reverent silence should instead be practiced. We may worship in reverent silence. It is a special characteristic of the Latin Rite especially, more so than in the East. During a reverent silence we may reflect on God, or pray to Him, or adore Him. Applause is not conducive to reflection, prayer, or adoration. Applause is raucous, noisy, and frivolous. By its very nature it cannot be reverent or submissive or humble. All applause during Mass redirects attention away from Christ on the altar or in the Tabernacle, and towards those who applaud, as well as those to whom the applause is directed. Again, we do not applaud God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1303425123' post='2230984'] 1382 “The Mass is at the same time, and inseparably, the sacrificial memorial in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated and the sacred banquet of communion with the Lord’s body and blood. But the celebration of the Eucharistic sacrifice is wholly directed toward the intimate union of the faithful with Christ through communion. To receive communion is to receive Christ himself who has offered himself for us.” Given that the celebration of the Eucharistic sacrifice, a.k.a. the Holy Mass, is *wholly directed* towards worshipping God, we see right away that applause has no place within it. Clapping is not worship. Applause is a secular response to entertainment which expresses appreciation. We do not applaud God. The Body and Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ is present in the Tabernacle or on the altar during Mass, and He is present for us to worship. There is no other purpose for the Mass. Applause is utterly foreign in the context of worship; it is appropriate to recognize the talents or achievements of another person. It is not reverent, it is not solemn, and it is not an act of worship. In any situation during Mass where one is tempted to applaud, a reverent silence should instead be practiced. We may worship in reverent silence. It is a special characteristic of the Latin Rite especially, more so than in the East. During a reverent silence we may reflect on God, or pray to Him, or adore Him. Applause is not conducive to reflection, prayer, or adoration. Applause is raucous, noisy, and frivolous. By its very nature it cannot be reverent or submissive or humble. All applause during Mass redirects attention away from Christ on the altar or in the Tabernacle, and towards those who applaud, as well as those to whom the applause is directed. Again, we do not applaud God. [/quote] For your sake, I hope you never attend World Youth Day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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