infinitelord1 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I was talking to a priest about marriage being valid outside of the church. He said there may be a difference between Catholic marriages and marriages outside of the Church but He wasn't sure. Is there a difference? I have also heard of priests denying baptism to a couples infant because the couple was not married inside of the Church. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I'm not an expert on the question regarding marriages, though I think non-Catholic, Christian marriages are presumed valid until proven otherwise, if I'm not mistaken. As for baptisms, to me it makes sense that non-Catholic couples would be denied having their child baptised. If they weren't married in the Church, will they be truly able to promise to raise their child in the Church, as they are required to promise at baptism? How committed are they to following the teachings of the Church if they weren't married in the Church (or didn't have their marriage validated/blessed in the Church later)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Marriage is hard under the best of circumstances. The sacrament is a gift to us to make it easier. Why wouldn't we want to be married in the church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1302356337' post='2227055'] Marriage is hard under the best of circumstances. The sacrament is a gift to us to make it easier. Why wouldn't we want to be married in the church? [/quote] I was thinking more about converts who were married beforehand and become Catholic. In this case, they wouldn't have to get married all over again. Right? I'm not really sure whats going on spiritually when a person gets married in the Church vs. outside of the Church. Thats what threw me for a loop. The priest is the one that mentioned Sacramental Marriage. I never even knew there was such a thing. I knew that marriage is a sacrament. I just didn't know that people who get married don't always receive a sacramental marriage. All in All, I would personally feel more comfortable getting married in the Catholic Church. This is all being asked out of curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Antony Maria OSB Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 [quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1302368972' post='2227085'] I was thinking more about converts who were married beforehand and become Catholic. In this case, they wouldn't have to get married all over again. Right? [/quote] It depends. To my understanding, if the couple are married, and each of them is married for the first time, haven't had any divorces, then there shouldn't be an issue. However, if one or both of them were married before they got married to each other, they would have to attain an annulment for their first marriage and might have to go through the marriage ceremony again with their current spouse (I'm not entirely sure about the latter: 100% about having to attain an annulment, though). [quote] I'm not really sure whats going on spiritually when a person gets married in the Church vs. outside of the Church. Thats what threw me for a loop. The priest is the one that mentioned Sacramental Marriage. I never even knew there was such a thing. I knew that marriage is a sacrament. I just didn't know that people who get married don't always receive a sacramental marriage.[/quote] Again, this is to my understanding, but marriage is the only sacrament where the lay person (in this case, people) is the minister of the sacrament. The priest or deacon is a witness of the Church at the wedding and gives the Church's blessing to the newly married couple. A Sacramental Marriage is a marriage which is made between two baptized persons. NewAdvent has an article on the sacrament of marriage, and there is a subsection devoted to sacramental marriage. You can find it [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09707a.htm"]here[/url]. God bless! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Converts have to be "eligible" to receive communion. If they have had a prior marriage, they have to get it take care of before their marriage can be "blessed" in the Church. That's what you call it when a priest does a marriage ceremony for a couple who have already been married legally, but not in the Catholic Church. We had an interesting situation 3 years ago in RCIA. A Protestant who had a divorce was now married to a Catholic. They had been together 10 years, and had two kids. He entered RCIA, knowing that if his previous marriage wasn't annulled, he would not be able to be baptized. He attended RCIA and mass with his kids for 2 years waiting. His annulment went through, but there was a hitch. His wife hadn't been to mass in years. He was now eligible to be married in the church, but his wife wasn't. The way they handled it, was the wife went to confession, started attending mass long enough to be able to marry in the Church. She was determined to quit going afterwards, but seeing her husband and children be baptized did something to her, and she became a very active member of the community. The kids are both altar servers, and the whole family volunteers at our football concession stand. That is the power of a sacrament. It can touch us in a way we never expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1302328721' post='2227026'] I was talking to a priest about marriage being valid outside of the church. He said there may be a difference between Catholic marriages and marriages outside of the Church but He wasn't sure. Is there a difference? I have also heard of priests denying baptism to a couples infant because the couple was not married inside of the Church. Any thoughts? [/quote] Marriage is definitely valid outside the Church. A marriage is between a man and a woman, the church recognizes and blesses the marriage through the Sacrament of Marriage. I can not believe that any priest would deny a child the grace of baptism because the childs parents were not married in the church? If I met such a priest I would have to ask him what Jesus meant when he said " Let the little children come to me." ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Protestants (my wife) have to go through the Churches anullment process as well so yes their marriages are presumed valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1302401210' post='2227167'] Marriage is definitely valid outside the Church. A marriage is between a man and a woman, the church recognizes and blesses the marriage through the Sacrament of Marriage. I can not believe that any priest would deny a child the grace of baptism because the childs parents were not married in the church? If I met such a priest I would have to ask him what Jesus meant when he said " Let the little children come to me." ed [/quote] The reason that some priests do this is because of situations like my niece. She was baptized a Catholic, and raised in the church until she was about 5 years old. Her little brother died, and it caused her parents to leave the Church. She is 41 years old now, hasn't been in a Catholic Church her entire adult life, but she will be held to a higher standard because she has received the Sacrament of Baptism. When baptizing an infant, the parents and godparents are making the decisions for the child. If they aren't going to raise the child in the Church, it is much better to deny them baptism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1302418323' post='2227235'] The reason that some priests do this is because of situations like my niece. She was baptized a Catholic, and raised in the church until she was about 5 years old. Her little brother died, and it caused her parents to leave the Church. She is 41 years old now, hasn't been in a Catholic Church her entire adult life, but she will be held to a higher standard because she has received the Sacrament of Baptism. When baptizing an infant, the parents and godparents are making the decisions for the child. [b]If they aren't going to raise the child in the Church, it is much better to deny them baptism.[/b] [/quote] I seriously doubt that its better to deny them baptism. There is a chance that in such a situation that child may have died as a youth and with baptism would not have had original sin on her soul and would therefore be able to reach heaven. Then there is always the chance that through the grace she recieved at baptism that she may hear or feel that little spark in her soul and return to the Church some day. There is no such thing as an ex-catholic, there are non practising catholics or fallen away catholics, but they still may return home like the prodigal son. The higher standard that your niece will be held to upon her death will be the standard of Jesus' Divine Mercy. ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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