FutureSister2009 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 I wish I understood what everyone was talking about. are you insulting my future Order or what???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sistersintigo Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 [quote name='FutureSister2009' timestamp='1302969579' post='2229238'] I wish I understood what everyone was talking about. are you insulting my future Order or what???? [/quote] Maybe Sister Theresa could be helpful here, as she is a long-time sister. Surely she understands what is being discussed in the preceding posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lwangaman Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I don't think any insults have been thrown nor are they intended. It seemed like there was a little confusion about the history of the Sisters Minor of Mary Immaculate, and about who's who, so I just made some clarifications as to the history of Mother Elisabetta Patrizi, the Sisters Minor (and Brothers Minor), who is Sr. Cristina DeMezzi, what's the current situation... I also know Sr. Theresa very well, and I do admire her. I made my first retreat with Mother Maria Elisabetta and Sr. Theresa Kovacs right around this time 15 years ago, it was Holy Week 1996. It didn't take me much time to decide what I was going to do and I was in Rome by August 1996. I have been near Mother Maria Elisabetta since 1996 and I know her very well. I admire many aspects of her, I fell in love with the charism that she was proposing in the Church. I still think it's a great charism, in fact the Sisters Minor of Mary Immaculate are still around, and are still a Religious Institute in the Diocese of Rome. They are in the heart of the Church and are under the direct supervision and direction of the Diocesan Offices in Rome. Mother Maria Elisabetta always taught us to be docile to the Church. It's the Church that decides if an Institute should exist or not. Every Religious Institute exists if it is approved by the Church. The diocese in which an Institute is founded has to look over an Institute's Constitutions, and make any necessary revisions before approving them. Being a religous (sister or brother) means being in the Church for the Church. Well, Mother Maria Elisabetta had a hard time accepting some recent interventions of the Diocese of Rome, and she is no longer in the Diocese of Rome nor is she a member of the Sisters Minor of Mary Immaculate which she herself founded. She has now started a new foundation in the diocese of Loreto. It will be up to the local Bishop to follow up on this foundation and see to its approval, but it is still in its beginning stage and is not yet a religious institute. The Sisters Minor of Mary Immaculate are currently undergoing a transition, they have an external nun appointed by the Diocese of Rome (who belongs to a community that does not wear a veil) who is guiding them at the moment, they are under the direct supervision of the Diocese of Rome for any future development (as is every community founded in the Diocese of Rome). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lwangaman Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Just so there's no confusion about who I am, my name is Fr. John D'Orazio, I am a priest incardinated in the Diocese of Rome and I am pastoral assistant in a parish here in Rome. I work with the Diocesan Offices for the youth ministry, for the university ministry, and a few other things. If I am in Rome, it is thanks to the Brothers / Sisters Minor of M.I. that brought me here. I went through the roman seminary for 6 years together with the other three first brothers, since we were just at the beginning of the foundation and we didn't have our own seminary. We were under the direct supervision of Cardinal Camillo Ruini who was the Vicar General in the diocese of Rome at the time. Cardinal Ruini approved the Sisters Minor of M.I. as a religious Institute of Diocesan Right in 1993. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureSister2009 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 But if it's not technically official yet, is it okay that they still wear the habit and say they are a part of the Institute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lwangaman Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='FutureSister2009' timestamp='1303143553' post='2229801'] But if it's not technically official yet, is it okay that they still wear the habit and say they are a part of the Institute? [/quote] I think that's what Sr. Jessica was trying to point out. Mother Maria Elisabetta was always very strict on this point, she always told us brothers that we couldn't wear a habit until we had a definitive approval by the Church (and that was hard for us! I waited so many years to wear a real habit and never was able to do so... we even had the habit all worked out to combine Franciscan and Carmelite aspects...) It seems like the new community that Mother M. Elisabetta is founding does wear a habit. So she seems to be contradicting her own principle... But in the end it's really up to the diocesan bishop whether a new community wears a habit or not, and I think that usually a bishop doesn't tell a new community that they can't or shouldn't wear a habit, because people get confused about all these distinctions. As being a part of the Institute, if you refer to "Sisters Minor of Mary Immaculate", well no the Franciscan Missionary Sisters are not a part of the Sisters Minor of Mary Immaculate... They're a new community, branched off from the Sisters Minor of Mary Immaculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnavarro61 Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='FutureSister2009' timestamp='1303143553' post='2229801'] But if it's not technically official yet, is it okay that they still wear the habit and say they are a part of the Institute? [/quote] I could answer regarding the habits. The Former Intercessors of the Lamb was a Public association of the faithful prior to its suppression last OCtober. They wore the distinct teal habits, although they are not yet "of Diocesan right". I have read somewhere, when things about the Intercessors are still hot, that they are allowed to wear habits because it's part of discernment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureSister2009 Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Well then is it wrong for me to want to be a part of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) [quote name='FutureSister2009' timestamp='1303223262' post='2230160'] Well then is it wrong for me to want to be a part of them? [/quote] No- but I think it is really important that you find out more about their history, their constitutions, foundress, etc, from them. They will be able to tell you what exactly caused the Mother to start this new community. I think what a lot of people haven't mentioned is that (smarter people, correct me if I'm wrong) all communities start as a Association of the Faithful (either public or private). Especialy if it's public, that's a step that means they are on their way to being "all good" with the church- through Diocesan or Pontifical right. Most new communities stay a public association of the faithful for at least a few years. When discerning the religious life, while you are acting on faith in God's will, you still need to know about them When you go to visit them, consider asking them at least some of TradMom's list of questions (search phatmass, you'll find them, they've been posted probably many times). Edited April 19, 2011 by Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulBride Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I just want to say that I am all confused again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='Lisa' timestamp='1303223826' post='2230165'] No- but I think it is really important that you find out more about their history, their constitutions, foundress, etc, from them. They will be able to tell you what exactly caused the Mother to start this new community. I think what a lot of people haven't mentioned is that (smarter people, correct me if I'm wrong) all communities start as a Association of the Faithful (either public or private). Especialy if it's public, that's a step that means they are on their way to being "all good" with the church- through Diocesan or Pontifical right. Most new communities stay a public association of the faithful for at least a few years. When discerning the religious life, while you are acting on faith in God's will, you still need to know about them When you go to visit them, consider asking them at least some of TradMom's list of questions (search phatmass, you'll find them, they've been posted probably many times). [/quote] I'm quite sure they all start out as a Private Association of the Faithful, then move on to Public Association of the Faithful, then to Religious Institute of Diocesan Right, then to Religious Institute of Pontifical Right. It is my understanding that a community of religious women who are a private association of the faithful, since they are on the way to becoming a religious institute and [i]have that end in mind[/i], they are permitted to wear habits. This seems to depend on the bishop of the diocese in which they are founded, though. Some bishops will allow them to wear habits; others don't until they are at least a public association of the faithful or even a religious institute. Anyway, going from one step to another requires both steady growth and a specified number of years. For example, to go from Public Association of the Faithful to a Religious Institute of Diocesan Right, there must be at least 10 years. From Diocesan Right to Pontifical Right, it's even longer than that. I'm not a canon lawyer, though. But I did work with one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1303233528' post='2230218'] I'm quite sure they all start out as a Private Association of the Faithful, then move on to Public Association of the Faithful, then to Religious Institute of Diocesan Right, then to Religious Institute of Pontifical Right. It is my understanding that a community of religious women who are a private association of the faithful, since they are on the way to becoming a religious institute and [i]have that end in mind[/i], they are permitted to wear habits. This seems to depend on the bishop of the diocese in which they are founded, though. Some bishops will allow them to wear habits; others don't until they are at least a public association of the faithful or even a religious institute. Anyway, going from one step to another requires both steady growth and a specified number of years. For example, to go from Public Association of the Faithful to a Religious Institute of Diocesan Right, there must be at least 10 years. From Diocesan Right to Pontifical Right, it's even longer than that. I'm not a canon lawyer, though. But I did work with one! [/quote] Thanks CM for clearing that up! So, FutureSister, don't feel like something's wrong just because they wear habits while they are a Public Association of the Faithful (I can think of several others that do the same). It would probably be good for you to ask these sorts of questions though, especially if you feel really called to enter there! If they know you are discerning with them and just asking for clarity, they will most likely be more than happy to explain the basics (when they were founded, the main idea of their new community, their charisms, etc). That's probably better than hearing people speculating about it on Phatmass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lwangaman Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I can confirm the explanation by CherieMadame, she is canonically correct! FutureSister 2009, I don't think I could say there is anything wrong with you wanting to join any community, as Lisa pointed out you just have to get to know more about the history, the background, the charism... And as long as a community is in the hands of the church you're fine. The original Sisters Minor of Mary Immaculate still have some houses in the United States in my understanding, if you are interested in getting to know them I can put you in touch with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lwangaman Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 [quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1303225019' post='2230173'] I just want to say that I am all confused again [/quote] Oh no! What confused you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ale Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lwangaman' timestamp='1303310518' post='2230510'] Oh no! What confused you? [/quote] I think that this man in blue dress is a member of the new male community of franciscan brothers missionaries founded by mother Elisabetta Patrizi. This photo was taken in the town of Recanati near Loreto: [img]http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/205100_217290868285923_100000150339118_981202_1758524_n.jpg[/img] Edited April 20, 2011 by Ale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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